Is there anyone who remembers how Alexander succeeded in duplicating Jack in The Dalton Brothers?

Freddy wrote on 02.01.2007 at 05:52:02:

Is there anyone who remembers how Alexander succeeded in duplicating Jack in The Dalton Brothers?

I remember that one, as I was very impressed by it and started a couple of experiments in that direction myself:
You have to COPY and PASTE a second (or more) Jack into the room you're designing.
Problem is, they all move in sync.

I even succeeded in having several Jacks walk thru a succession of rooms (once, one Jack is entering a new room, the 'clone-Jacks' are "materializing" in that new room at their respective spots.
Unfortunately I did not succeed in creating a really working gameplay with that method (means: the Jacks just move too 'robotic' in sync, which doesn't lend itself to a 'storyline' or something).
The guy who did the Dalton Brothers Mansion must have had the same problem... but I was very impressed, how he managed to come up with a playable mansion (albeit only one room).

About a month ago I tried to work out a MIRROR room, where the second Jack would move as a mirror image of the first.
Well, what can I tell you....

aquaMat wrote on 02.01.2007 at 16:54:11:

... You have to COPY and PASTE a second (or more) Jack into the room you're designing. Problem is, they all move in sync. ...

I have tried COPY and PASTE, but my "previous" Jack always disappears. So I never get more than one. :(
What do you mean with "move in sync"?

Freddy wrote on 02.01.2007 at 20:31:04:

aquaMat wrote on 02.01.2007 at 16:54:11: ... You have to COPY and PASTE a second (or more) Jack into the room you're designing. Problem is, they all move in sync. ... I have tried COPY and PASTE, but my "previous" Jack always disappears. So I never get more than one. :( What do you mean with "move in sync"?

After I wrote that last reply I went back to my old test mansion with the two Jacks (it still exists), but I couldn't repeat the trick either.
I must have forgotten something. :-[
All I remember is, you had to make a selection square around Jack, then alt+Click (+drag) it to copy + paste a second Jack. But probably there was another little thing i don't remembner, as it works, but as soon as I lift the finger of the mouse, the second Jack vanishes again.

By 'move in-sync' I mean that naturally: when you let one Jack walk in a certain direction all clones duplicate that behaviour.
My dream always was to have one Jack walk thru a mansion, and then suddenly he comes into a room where another Jack is waiting for him.... or where there's a mirror.... stuff like that...!

Where's the designer of the Dalton Bros.?  He might re-tell us the little bit that's missing....  

Hey Freddy:
I got it.... !!

I experimented a bit...until finally it worked:

You have to make a selection square,  alt+click/drag to copy additional Jacks and then DO NOT click on anything else. but select comnd-O (to open another room). When asked "save this room?" you prompt yes.
Then select another room, as if you want to open it, then return to the original room...and voilà - all Jack clones are still there.

Guess I'll fool around with it a bit more.... it's fun !

:) Thanks for the info. It really works. But continuing in a next room is very very strange.

EDIT: And have you seen that although the Jacks move sync, they do NOT sleep together! ;D Or play yoyo?

Freddy wrote on 03.01.2007 at 02:37:22:

:) EDIT: And have you seen that although the Jacks move sync, they do NOT sleep together! ;D Or play yoyo?

Oh yes.... ;)

But wait.... last night I managed to let one Jack come pretty close to another Jack..... he was almost harassing him from behind :)
..... with the help of a conveyor belt you can decrease the "fixed distance" between two Jacks until the point where..... (censored).

Maybe I'll create a little XXX movie later...

Hmm, so that's how you do that...

I'm tempted to temporarily cease development on Smallsome Swicks in order to start a new mansion with puzzles exploiting this quirk.

Vern, this behavior was definitely not intended, right? But at least it's consistent with your assumptions when you made the program, right?

Mmmmm ...

I am thinking about making a small mansion with this feature, that I will NOT release. But I want to release ... the movie of it!!!

Yesterday I succeeded in doing very very odd and funny things. But it seems almost impossible to make a mansion from it that may be "played".

How about Jack no. 2 flying over the head of Jack no. 1? Or Jack playing yoyo while sleeping? Ever seen him playing with 4 yoyo's? Opening a blue door from a distance? One Jack suddenly becoming two?

Simple: you will not believe your eyes! [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif]

I was just creating 2 very simple rooms with 2 Jacks.  Amazing effects!  Definitely worth experimenting with this.

If anyone is still confused about how to make a second Jack, just select Jack, copy him, then paste him were ever, and before you de-select Jack, test. (Faster way: Select Jack, Command + C, Command + V, drag were ever, Command + T.)

Hope this makes it all less complicated!  ;)

Yo, Freddy....
...seems like we've opened Pandora's box here  ;)
Looks as if we're about to see a flood of "2 jacks-mansions" in the near future !!

I'll be checking out brell's twins later, just downloaded it.

Stopped the development of my Dual-Jack XXX movie, though  ;D

Who said I was talking about a 2 Jack-mansion-movie? To have 4 yoyo's one needs at least ... ;D

Maniac wrote on 06.01.2007 at 07:48:42:

Vern, this behavior was definitely not intended, right? But at least it's consistent with your assumptions when you made the program, right?

Correct. In fact, I even added code to the level builder to remove duplicate Jacks if you tried to paste him in the room more than once, or copied and pasted him. But obviously you tricky people found ways around my code.

I remember I got around it once too, and played with it a little bit. It's amusing, but you can't make a practical mansion with it.

However, it gives me an interesting idea for the expansion pack: you could have a monster that mimicks your movements, like Spy vs. Spy. So he could be in some upper area that you can't access, and you have to move in a way to get the monster to walk over to a lever and pull it. Could be interesting.

My other idea for that monster though would be that he moves on his own, and pulls levers whenever he comes across them. This means you could set up timing areas, where zapper beams will be "turned off" thanks to that guy for a period of time, until he walks back over to the lever and pulls it again! Could also be interesting. But I'll have to see how hard it is to program.

VernJensen wrote on 08.01.2007 at 09:31:34:

However, it gives me an interesting idea for the expansion pack: you could have a monster that mimicks your movements, like Spy vs. Spy. So he could be in some upper area that you can't access, and you have to move in a way to get the monster to walk over to a lever and pull it. Could be interesting. My other idea for that monster though would be that he moves on his own, and pulls levers whenever he comes across them. This means you could set up timing areas, where zapper beams will be "turned off" thanks to that guy for a period of time, until he walks back over to the lever and pulls it again! Could also be interesting. But I'll have to see how hard it is to program.

That's sounds very, very interesting, Vern.
For a long time I wish that monsters could be controlled a bit more, to make them into real 'opponents' or something like that.
Your idea goes even further than that.

VernJensen wrote on 08.01.2007 at 09:31:34:

Maniac wrote on 06.01.2007 at 07:48:42: Vern, this behavior was definitely not intended, right? But at least it's consistent with your assumptions when you made the program, right? Correct. In fact, I even added code to the level builder to remove duplicate Jacks if you tried to paste him in the room more than once, or copied and pasted him. But obviously you tricky people found ways around my code. I remember I got around it once too, and played with it a little bit. It's amusing, but you can't make a practical mansion with it. However, it gives me an interesting idea for the expansion pack: you could have a monster that mimicks your movements, like Spy vs. Spy. So he could be in some upper area that you can't access, and you have to move in a way to get the monster to walk over to a lever and pull it. Could be interesting. My other idea for that monster though would be that he moves on his own, and pulls levers whenever he comes across them. This means you could set up timing areas, where zapper beams will be "turned off" thanks to that guy for a period of time, until he walks back over to the lever and pulls it again! Could also be interesting. But I'll have to see how hard it is to program.

Funny to learn where this feature came from. :-)