In other words: what should deserve a big blue S in the Editor? (And please don't tell me this one is not blue!)

• I don't think Money or Shield etc. need to be involved. A hidden but empty room could do the trick if, say, it looks nice. Or just because :P
• A bit of secrecy would be required. For instance, If I put some difficultly accessible money in a room but where all the way is disclosed, then it shouldn't be a Secret: the reward is the money itself. On the other hand, if the money is perfectly visible but the way is (at least partly) hidden, then it could deserve an S.
• Where, inside a Secret, should I place that S? Say, in a big (secret) room with difficultly accessible money: should it be located in the entrance or on the money? I think that since S counts Secrets, and not Points, Jack should be rewarded by it for finding the secret room, and by the money for daring to go and get it. Thus, he could get the Secret for finding the cunningly hidden room but not the Points because he has only one life left and doesn't want to take any unnecessary risk. Even more so if the reward is a Shield (you may want to keep space in Jack's pockets for keys).
  

Old news, boy(-tox). ;) I clearly remember your opinion about this item from one of the seventeen previous boards. ;D

And since I remember EVERYTHING from all previous boards ::), I invite you to A Deserted Holiday Village. In that new mansion I tried to follow YOUR ideas about secrets. Please tell me if my secrets fit with your opinion.

Well, I thought it might be worth reiterating in this new forum  :D. Also to get other architects' thoughts on the matter: I wouldn't claim to be the ultimate authority on the question.

As for following my idea of secrets: you would be the first one! I doubt I followed them myself  :-[ Maybe that's why I came up with this list. Or maybe I was having a quiet [smiley=bath.gif] when the idea struck me? (Just trying out the bath smiley, really.)

Oh, and next time (if there is one) I will keep the total amount of secrets low. This is most definitely personal taste, though.

Toybox wrote on 09.02.2007 at 02:25:57:

... [smiley=bath.gif] ... Oh, and next time (if there is one) I will keep the total amount of secrets low. ...

Hello Archimedes! Did you yell "eureka" when you found ... the soap?

Well, keeping the number of secrets low (or high) is something I should NOT direct. Put a blue secret-S, when you think it is logical. And otherwise, don't.

;D

I am only very lazy (and, as many mathematicians, quite bad with numbers) - so I am happy to deduce with 80% of secrets that I am missing only one or two, rather than a score like 94% which means I need to get a calculator.

Oh, now I understand why you like Mikee's Castle ... ::) ;D

Freddy wrote on 09.02.2007 at 02:35:43:

...Hello Archimedes! Did you yell "eureka" when you found ... the soap?...

I just read a book on Archimedes recently for school... and it wasn't a nice quiet bath, Toybox, it was very loud because Archimedes was forced into the bath!  ;D ;D

[smiley=bath.gif]

blub blub blub blub

Don't disturb Toybox. He is still wondering if my secret-S from my last post is really blue. :-X

Secrets to make is not at all so simply if one it to make wants that the other player means that is no hiding place, One can do it naturally marking which I would also recommend, but with the Layer not at all 6 alone is it so simply. In addition, there is with extras the adjustment Draw Brick on more layer 6. I switch it it that along always on and off look later in such a way as if would be there nothing  ;)

But for if I explain that actually here??  :P

[smiley=bath.gif]

blub

Would you consider plot exposition a secret? Because I do. Hmm...

Don't mind me, nothing to see here. Please move along.  :-/

I think MM should have a "Secret" sound, as in Zelda, that tells you "Yes, you found something secret!" -- the only issue I'd have with this is that it adds more "pressure" for the Designer to choose the best spot for the S since players would then know exactly when they earned it.  I personally like the idea of the S being in an area where you enter a room, but I often end up placing it on the coin reward in the secret room/area just to be absolutely sure players aren't able to jump over it on accident or anything.   :o  This would change if there was a sound because then I could test it and easily know when I hit the S, and I'd want players to have the "Zelda"-like experience of hearing the Secret sound as they passed through the hidden wall or emerged in a secret room.

Personally, I like secrets to have coins in them.  Just a map, or just a backback, or just a shield are okay I guess, but then it is possible to get 100% score and NOT 100% secrets, and I honestly don't like seeing that on the High Scores list.   :'(  Here's looking at you, Packman302, Shandi, and Unhuman.  I wish I knew how you did it so I could fix it.  :-[  Seeing that makes me think you found a secret area and got the coins and managed to *not* get the S which would be entirely my fault.   :-/

Anyhow, there are some thoughts of mine on the subject.  Now it is definitely time for a nice warm [smiley=bath.gif].

Alan Falcon wrote on 31.01.2008 at 02:39:16:

Personally, I like secrets to have coins in them.  Just a map, or just a backback, or just a shield are okay I guess, but then it is possible to get 100% score and NOT 100% secrets

So I followed my own advice here as I've been going back over Falcon Manor and updating some things.  I think now it would be impossible to get 100% score without also finding 100% secrets.  I could be wrong though.  I found also, going back, that I have been fairly inconsistent about what I marked as a secret and what I did not mark.  I tried to fix some of that, but I found that certain areas that I marked as "secret" in the Normal version of the mansion just didn't feel like they should be marked in the Hard version.  I wonder if anyone else feels the same way -- are the very obvious and easy "walk through walls to get this" secrets worth putting an S?  What about in the "Hard" version of a mansion?

It's not easy to make a good secret that the player not can easy find it... You must make already a hint that there can be a secret  :)

Chippy wrote on 01.02.2008 at 02:34:52:

It's not easy to make a good secret that the player not can easy find it... You must make already a hint that there can be a secret  :)

That's a good point, Mikee.  I think my favorite kind of secret is one that you can see in one room, but have to access from another room -- and there are no obvious hints in the other room.  You have to remember that there *should* be a passage there, because of what you originally saw, and then try to get to it.  This way there is still a clue, but it isn't overly obvious.  

That said, I actually like secrets that are fairly obvious.  As a player, it is a lot of fun to see a wall that is shaped differently and think "huh, I wonder if..." and then go walk right through it into a secret room.  It may be obvious and everyone may find that particular secret, but I still get to feel smart for finding it.   8-)

Find a Secret = NORMAL ::)
Make a Secret = HARD :P :)

I globally agree on Alan's analysis, except on one point which I will explain later. Specifically, I like a lot Secrets which are visible but not accessible from another room, and then not hinted again (but accessible) from somewhere else - and obvious secrets, just to make those who miss it feel guilty  :P


But I still think Secrets might need not have any money in them. I might change on the subject, though - but if 100% money => 100% Secrets, then it is a bit frustrating for some reason: I like both scores to be independent.

Oh, and I'm still no better at locating Secrets - hidden rooms or in general hidden places you might not stumble upon by chance are likely to be branded with the blue S, hidden money (or whatever else) which you could reach by chance are likely not to. Then again, that's just guidelines rather than rules.

For Secrets its better you make money there  8-)

So, you must give the player a chance to become more money when he did find a secret. But you can make too a shield or something...   :)

But for me is only a good secret, when i find in the secret money, so i have then mor fun!  8-) :P

~~~Example~~~

Best idea to put cracked walls or something that could harm jack (like a pit of lava, or a zapper beam, or a monster) that is put beside an ordinary looking wall, so it gives the play a hint on secrets. If you want secrets to be SECRET, then don't do this, just make players try to climb down floors or jump against walls all the time hoping to jump into one.

Heh, that would be cool. If you're looking for a secret, but you jump into a wall, and fall down into a snake pit. :P

Look at this: Cracked walls covering the secret. You could add normal blue brick (layer 6 though) and some cracks to give a little hint. Make sure you put the blue "S" where Jack is going to walk to get the first secret money bag he finds. Players have to walk over the Blue "S" to make the secret effect in your overall % at the end.

---

ehm wingy, i can't see the "S" in the picture, where's the secret hmmm??  ::) ;)

Eh, are you blind? The "S" is between the spaced money bags, in the cracked walls.

Anthony wrote on 16.02.2008 at 05:29:06:

Eh, are you blind? The "S" is between the spaced money bags, in the cracked walls.

OMG, it's a joke!!! Look at this on my post:  ;) ::)

You think really, I can't see the "S"?! :(

I know!  ;D [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

:D okay  :D