Hey,

I'm a little concerned about the way the mansion repository works right now. For one thing, it's a lot of work for Freddy! I mean, even though I'm sure he doesn't mind, even the most devoted of volunteers burns out eventually. Circumstances change, and, even if it's a few years down the line, someone always needs to maintain that repository.

It's also inflexible for the users in that it doesn't store much information (only as much as Freddy maintains by hand). It seems impermanent as well; I mean, it's all stored by the forum software's upload facility, right? Well, what if you decide you want to change forum software?

Etc., etc. What I'm saying is, we need a dedicated mansion repository. For an example of what I'm thinking, have a look at Ambrosia Software's addon files repositories--they have one for each of their games. Under such a system, anyone can upload, but an administrator must approve an upload before it becomes available for download. Approving (or denying) a submission would be as easy as pushing a button.

What's more, we could store metadata such as description, version, author, date, download count, etc. We could even allow for user ratings. You get the idea.

This isn't just an idle suggestion; I'm willing to put my money (or time, at least) where my mouth is. I would volunteer to write the code (or help out at the least) needed to get this up and running. I'm working my way through school as a webmaster for a University department ( http://www.elc.byu.edu ), but I think I could steal a few hours of MM playing time to work on it. ;)

What do others think?

I agree a hundred-fold. We had something a lot like that two forum sites ago, and I think it worked pretty well. The only thing you need is somebody checking submissions fairly regularly.

I'm also in favor (although I think most here would disagree with me) of the user ratings for custom mansions. I bought Ambrosia's Sketchfighter a while ago, and as a new user of the game, I really like being able to scan the custom levels for the best rated ones, so I don't have to deal with as many buggy or wonky levels. It reduces my frustration level with my new product. And when I'm done with those levels, I can always go back and play the others, but it's so nice to have some guidelines when there's a huge repository of add-ons for a game.

Thx for this input. We will surely have a look at it.

But to have no misunderstandings. One of my own demands to Vern was that there was a construction with several administrators. To avoid troubles when one "disappears" or "has a burn-out" etc. That is why we are with three administrators who are ALL able to do the up- and downloading-stuff. So, for example, when I am on holiday next week, MM-life certainly goes on!

ryos wrote on 15.02.2007 at 11:34:47:

Hey, I'm a little concerned about the way the mansion repository works right now. For one thing, it's a lot of work for Freddy! I mean, even though I'm sure he doesn't mind, even the most devoted of volunteers burns out eventually. Circumstances change, and, even if it's a few years down the line, someone always needs to maintain that repository. It's also inflexible for the users in that it doesn't store much information (only as much as Freddy maintains by hand). It seems impermanent as well; I mean, it's all stored by the forum software's upload facility, right? Well, what if you decide you want to change forum software? Etc., etc. What I'm saying is, we need a dedicated mansion repository. For an example of what I'm thinking, have a look at Ambrosia Software's addon files repositories--they have one for each of their games. Under such a system, anyone can upload, but an administrator must approve an upload before it becomes available for download. Approving (or denying) a submission would be as easy as pushing a button. What's more, we could store metadata such as description, version, author, date, download count, etc. We could even allow for user ratings. You get the idea. This isn't just an idle suggestion; I'm willing to put my money (or time, at least) where my mouth is. I would volunteer to write the code (or help out at the least) needed to get this up and running. I'm working my way through school as a webmaster for a University department ( http://www.elc.byu.edu ), but I think I could steal a few hours of MM playing time to work on it. ;) What do others think?

Someone might e-mail Eric at www.snakequest.com and ask about possibly using his custom system that he built for Snake Quest level files.  I think it is a great system and knowing Eric is probably very flexible.  I know that I've asked for special features such as mansion sets that are "Stickied" as "Editor's Choice" and he implemented that very quickly.  But then, the page was made so long ago that he may not longer have interest/time in updating it for use with another game.  But you'll never know if you don't ask!  

http://snakequest.com/contact.php

Although ryos has a valid argument with what he says, I feel the system as it is now is far superiour to that of our early forums.

Freddy and brell are doing a wonderful job here and the system is clear and very easy to handle. I especially like the three different list-forms.
Plus: The admins are very quick with uploading new mansions to the lists.

Also one must not underestimate the amount of control the admins have over the mansions (and new entries) in the current system. And we definitely wouldn't want an "uncontrolled" custom mansion list. (We have "Free Up- And Downloading" for that purpose !)

As long as Freddy and brell are willing to continue their work I see no reason whatsoever to change that system.

Also I feel the information provided about each mansion is sufficient.

My view too, AQuamat!

ryos wrote on 15.02.2007 at 11:34:47:

This isn't just an idle suggestion; I'm willing to put my money (or time, at least) where my mouth is.

Right, that's it, that's one too many.

What exactly does this expression mean? I've seen it here and there and never quite could grasp what it means. So, might anybody explain in easy words?

And, to speak about the current topic too, there is always the opportunity to upload freely non-approved Mansions. Maybe there could be some sort of List too, which could:

- on the one hand, make it easier to download fancy experiment,

- on the other hand, for random people to test it and, possibly, for Administrators to pick it and approve it at any time for officialisation?

(I'm not sure whether this is clear?)

Toybox wrote on 02.02.2008 at 03:47:13:

ryos wrote on 15.02.2007 at 11:34:47: This isn't just an idle suggestion; I'm willing to put my money (or time, at least) where my mouth is. What exactly does this expression mean? I've seen it here and there and never quite could grasp what it means. So, might anybody explain in easy words?

It means he is hungry, and all he has is some money in his wallet.  *munch* *munch*

No, just kidding!

It means that he is not just telling someone else to fix it and standing back to watch, he is willing to help out and take on the work himself.  He is willing to actually help out with what he is asking for other people to do. :-)

Wow, this is something I didn't expect to see resurrected, a year later. I don't have anything else to add. :)

Offer's still on the table. I've actually been wanting to write a web app that does this gracefully and well for quite some time, to release as open source. There are a lot of small/indie companies with products whose users could benefit from such a thing.

ryos wrote on 04.02.2008 at 09:51:33:

Wow, this is something I didn't expect to see resurrected, a year later.

Haha, yeah, I've been brining back some very old threads recently. :-)  What can I say? I've been missing a long time!

I personally prefer automated systems... and wish that I could have figured out a fully automated system for the old old boards/fansite.  But we do have people here who seem to be very good about taking on the manual labor, and if the mansion designers and players here think that the system works, I suppose there is no need to fix it. :-)

ryos, Maybe Vern will want something like this for his upcoming Space Shooter?

Right, I will transmit some feedback about accessibility of custom mansions from my brother. These are certainly valid comments, inasmuch as they actually reflect the opinion of a real non-forum MM player: so, it is possible that others feel the same but, not being members (or brothers of members!) of the forum we don't get the feedback here.

Let's hope I won't distort too much his opinion. Bear in mind that I'm only the messenger here - I do not suggest any solution or improvement with respect to his comments. (On the other hand, if what I write is unclear, please let me know and I will try my best to shed some light.)

---

He finds it hard to find the place where custom mansions can be downloaded. I mean, not to find that place when you are on the forums (although, that too) but once you have just opened your internet browser and the first place you think of visiting is actionsoft.com.

Actually, the fact that you need to go and visit the forums "is not user-friendly". The forums are not the most obvious place to look for custom levels - it is too confidential, more fan-oriented (not oriented towards the casual player). He would find a specially dedicated page more sensible, where you can get custom mansions (and with a link from the actionsoft page, say).

But, even once you are on the forum homepage, finding out where the CMs can be downloaded is too much trouble. The link to newest mansions on top is good, but where are the old mansions?

Also, information on each mansions is not sufficiently accessible. For example, while he did find the all-CMs-pack (by googling!), there was no readily available information on the author of each mansion. This is typically something he would have liked to see more obviously displayed: like books, or movies, it is often a guide as to what sort of atmosphere you can expect.

Seen from the perspective of a casual player, I guess you're absolutely right.
Even if I felt until now (for us insiders) it is clear enough where to look for custom mansions, I absolutely believe what you say is true.

And I absolutely second the opinion on information about authors, difficulty etc..... this should be more visible !

For us insiders, we even don't really need much more than the Latest Mansions feature  ;)

Toybox wrote on 09.03.2008 at 02:19:27:

(snip) He finds it hard to find the place where custom mansions can be downloaded. I mean, not to find that place when you are on the forums (although, that too) but once you have just opened your internet browser and the first place you think of visiting is actionsoft.com. Actually, the fact that you need to go and visit the forums "is not user-friendly". The forums are not the most obvious place to look for custom levels - it is too confidential, more fan-oriented (not oriented towards the casual player). He would find a specially dedicated page more sensible, where you can get custom mansions (and with a link from the actionsoft page, say).

To address this problem we would need Vern's assistance.  I see two solutions:
1. To make the link clearer and clearly state on Actionsoft's homepage that you can find MM custom mansions on the forum.
2. To keep the CM's on a separate page altogether, but clearly accessible from both AS homepage and the MM forums.


Toybox wrote on 09.03.2008 at 02:19:27:

But, even once you are on the forum homepage, finding out where the CMs can be downloaded is too much trouble. The link to newest mansions on top is good, but where are the old mansions? Also, information on each mansions is not sufficiently accessible. For example, while he did find the all-CMs-pack (by googling!), there was no readily available information on the author of each mansion. This is typically something he would have liked to see more obviously displayed: like books, or movies, it is often a guide as to what sort of atmosphere you can expect.

Now I cannot agree at all.  The CM board is clearly marked "Download your custom mansions here" and once inside you can find the mansions sorted by name, by release date and by author.  There are also information about the CM's difficulty at the download pages.

brell wrote on 09.03.2008 at 19:43:32:

Toybox wrote on 09.03.2008 at 02:19:27: But, even once you are on the forum homepage, finding out where the CMs can be downloaded is too much trouble. The link to newest mansions on top is good, but where are the old mansions? Also, information on each mansions is not sufficiently accessible. For example, while he did find the all-CMs-pack (by googling!), there was no readily available information on the author of each mansion. This is typically something he would have liked to see more obviously displayed: like books, or movies, it is often a guide as to what sort of atmosphere you can expect. Now I cannot agree at all.  The CM board is clearly marked "Download your custom mansions here" and once inside you can find the mansions sorted by name, by release date and by author.  There are also information about the CM's difficulty at the download pages.

Well, as I said I'm just relaying his opinion. Once you find the correct page with classification by author / date / name, all desired info is easy to get (and clearly displayed, in my opinion). However, see the caveat below.

What the reaction shows essentially is:
- if he had the problem (even due to lack of patience) it is possible that others have problems too. We might need more feedback, but that would be feedback from people who aren't registered on the forum and therefore difficult to obtain.
- while the page is fairly easy to access if you put your mind at it, some players won't really do it and will give up easily at the first difficulty. Surely we forum people know our way pretty well around here, but how does it feel for an outsider?

The promised caveat is that the CM download threads are located towards the middle of the boards and somewhat hidden among the conversations. Hidden, because they are not really highlighted (same colour, same font size, whatever), so you still need to do the effort of actually reading thread titles in order to find out the correct one.

To arrange this, would it be possible to include a link to http://www.actionsoft.com/forums/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=005 as close to the top of the forum homepage as possible?

Toybox wrote on 09.03.2008 at 20:46:29:

brell wrote on 09.03.2008 at 19:43:32: Toybox wrote on 09.03.2008 at 02:19:27: But, even once you are on the forum homepage, finding out where the CMs can be downloaded is too much trouble. The link to newest mansions on top is good, but where are the old mansions? Also, information on each mansions is not sufficiently accessible. For example, while he did find the all-CMs-pack (by googling!), there was no readily available information on the author of each mansion. This is typically something he would have liked to see more obviously displayed: like books, or movies, it is often a guide as to what sort of atmosphere you can expect. Now I cannot agree at all.  The CM board is clearly marked "Download your custom mansions here" and once inside you can find the mansions sorted by name, by release date and by author.  There are also information about the CM's difficulty at the download pages. Well, as I said I'm just relaying his opinion. Once you find the correct page with classification by author / date / name, all desired info is easy to get (and clearly displayed, in my opinion). However, see the caveat below. What the reaction shows essentially is: - if he had the problem (even due to lack of patience) it is possible that others have problems too. We might need more feedback, but that would be feedback from people who aren't registered on the forum and therefore difficult to obtain. - while the page is fairly easy to access if you put your mind at it, some players won't really do it and will give up easily at the first difficulty. Surely we forum people know our way pretty well around here, but how does it feel for an outsider? The promised caveat is that the CM download threads are located towards the middle of the boards and somewhat hidden among the conversations. Hidden, because they are not really highlighted (same colour, same font size, whatever), so you still need to do the effort of actually reading thread titles in order to find out the correct one. To arrange this, would it be possible to include a link to http://www.actionsoft.com/forums/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=005 as close to the top of the forum homepage as possible?

Agree on the different color/size, link is now included in the news at the top of the forums.

Thank you  :)

Maybe it would also help to rename the download thread.

It now says: "Lists of completed mansions", which is a bit misleading for the casual observer, I guess. What is a "completed mansion" ?
Is it one I finished playing ? Or what ?  (the casual observer might think).

Why not call it: "Lists of downloadable Custom Mansions" or something to that effect ?!

Agreed.