Okay, so I got help on a developer mailing list, and now I'm nearly finished with a beautiful new dialog box for handling signs from within the editor.

Even thought it was several hours of frustrating coding, the result is SOOOO nice to use. :-)

---

Nice work, Vern! Everyone will love it!  :)

In one word: superb!

YES!!!!!!

This has been bothering me for awhile so I'm going to ask.

How in the wide world of sports did you get sound into the resources?

Yes, I did it but what a process, which is why the music wasn't better.

1. Create the sound in whatever.
2. Export to wav
3. Try to get consistent levels in Audacity
4. Export to wav
5. Transfer the wav to my old G4 running OS9.2.2
6. Use SoundApp PPC to make a sound suitcase
7. Move it back to my MBP
8. Use Rezilla to get it into Midnight Mansion Sounds

PLEASE tell me if there is an OSX sound application that will create ' snd' resources. I searched for the better part of a week looking and didn't find ONE app that could do it. OR is there a tool in XCODE to do it, kind of like Rez/DeRez.

Thanks,

Joe B

joeb wrote on 24.02.2007 at 08:04:18:

How in the wide world of sports did you get sound into the resources?

Actually, that's a problem I'll need solved myself soon! Back in the "Old days," with System 7/8/9, you could just open up a SND file, copy its contents, and paste into whatever other resource file you were using. But nowadays, I don't know of any sound programs that create SND files. (Does anyone reading this know of any???) So I'm not sure exactly how I'll get sounds into the resource file for the expansion pack. Might be a problem!

BTW, I just finished signs. They're DONE. And quite nice indeed to be able to create them from within the editor... saves a LOT of time. One thing though: you need to remember to clear the contents of the sign's text FIRST, if you're going to delete that sign from the room. Otherwise, you'll end up with extra unused TEXT resources in your mansion file, which could add up over time. (But otherwise not really cause any problems.)

I'm starting to wonder if I should charge an upgrade fee for the editor, since so many new features are going into the next release. ;-)  [JUST KIDDING! Geez!]

FYI. I for one would PAY the fee. Having been around the block a few times now with the graphics, any help with making it easier is worth it.

As far as the sound goes I'll keep looking but the solution I outlined was the only thing that I could come up with. There is another solution and it's kind of  ugly but it does exist totally in OSX. You can use a piece of software called Soundflowerbed. With it you can redirect sound streams between IAC compliant audio programs and I could get sounds/music from Audacity, Soundtrack Pro and Garageband directly into Resorcerer. The issue I ran into was that I had to click the record button in Resorcerer AFTER I started the sound in one of the other apps. It led to some timing issues because the audio stream is being pushed as a pure data stream and you couldn't hear what was going on and kind of had to guess at it.
The other solution I was looking at was maybe writing a plug-in for Rezilla but I have to bury my nose back in the MacOS api's, which may be a little time consuming but since real UNIX sits at the core there may be some things already written that could be leveraged. Don't know but I'll certainly let you know if I find anything. But honestly you may want to think about a new way of doing things, perhaps midi.

Joe B

When you asked that, it tickled a long-buried memory in the back of my brain. We're talking about a program I haven't used since like System 7.5, but I googled and it's still out there: Brian's Sound Tool.

It is still a Classic application, and I don't know if it works under classic since I couldn't be bothered to actually test it. ;) Unfortunately, that doesn't do much for you Intel Mac users.

Further googling yields this list (scroll down to the Mac section), which lists several promising-looking leads. Again, I can't be bothered to actually try any of these - sorry. :)

ryos,

Perfectly OK. I think I have some old South bloodhound in me. You put me on the scent and I tracked it down.

@Vern,

We have a winner!

SoundHack - FREEWARE

Been playing with it and it does work AND under OSX.

THANKS ryos!

---

Oh...thanks so much, folks.   :D :)

As I don't have a classic environment anymore, I'm so glad you found something.
This will make my life easier with the Discotheque.

So AquaMat... when's Discotheque coming out?

Joeb, thanks for the sound app. it'll really come in handy! But I could of just used the sound app. that came with classic.  ;)

Oh and Vern, please don't forget to make hotkeys for the layers! (Command + 1 to layer 1 ect.) Don't forget! Put it on your to-do list!  :D

This is kinda weird, but true... if you just rename a .mov sound to .snd, it makes it a .snd document and you can copy it into ResEdit! It might not work unless you have at least version 7 of Quicktime. I have 7.1.3.

Anthony wrote on 24.02.2007 at 20:00:06:

So AquaMat... when's Discotheque coming out? ...

You are not to blame, Wingy. But we administrators can't do anything at the same time. While suztours is busy with the layout of our boards and brell is away for the weekend, I am doing what I can.

aquaMat sent his mansion to me for beta-testing and he knows, just like arevn and others before, that I take that very seriously and that it takes time. Don't forget that, in between, I have a lot of other MM things to do. Replying on posts, emails and PMs. Moving posts. Removing P&P-members. Correcting the way Mikee was sending his 4(!) mansions, probably to a language-problem. That is why I am also busy to "organize" a German translation for him. And I also have almost daily contact with Vern, concerning MM 1.0.8 which is MORE IMPORTANT than any individual mansion, including questions on the boards about my own MMaM, HoW, Bedlam etc.

And I needed to work as well at a very important and large post about art in MM, that couldn't wait in my opinion. Which is now on the boards.

So, please don't always ask over and over again when new mansions will be there. There are nearly 100 mansions now. And I can't imagine you beat them all. Did you? Are try to get on the world high score list of one of the included mansions? Till the Disco is there.

I tried to beat all, but most of them were too hard so I gave up.  :-[

Freddy, I couldn't have said it better....

Vern, will this new handling of signs be included in 1.0.8?

Yes.

nice Work Vern!  :D

Can 1.0.8 come out tomarrow, Vern?  ::)

Patience, grasshopper.

hehe ;)

How can I? The world might blow up tomarrow so why don't have everything out now?  ;D

Because it takes a finite amount of time to do anything, including finish Midnight Mansion 1.0.8, and (shockingly, although you may not have realised it) blow up anything.

Can't Vern just put it out the way it is after a quick conpile and leave out the unfinished stuff? Who knows, there could be a astroid the size of Texas heading out way!

Oh Wingy, let the man work.........
He's probably having enough stuff to think about already, so don't burden him with the responsibility of a potential blast of the planet !!
:o ;)

Wingy,

You don't just do a "quick compile". There's more than compiling. Linking, optimizing, resource manipulation. Cool your jets! It'll get here. I'm sitting on three new mansions (~350 rooms), one of them the contest mansion. I'm not releasing anything until 1.08 comes out. This is the perfect opportunity to sit back and think how to make Ted better, or Castle Basano or whatever. Isn't there enough to play out there? If not build something of your own. Psychtronic said it correctly:

Patience grasshopper....

joeb

You're done with your contest mansion???

Pretty much. Still haven't found a Jill I'm happy with but the dogs, monkeys, killer parrots, etc are done. I also don't know if I'm doing any custom music but it goes without saying the sounds will have to be different. Plus I'm still mapping graphics so that playing with standard graphics works. There'll be a Search for Jack and a Search for Jack - STD. STD won't have any custom graphics so it'll be playable as is. The other one will have the mansion file, sound file, new backgrounds, and maybe music. That setup will be wrapped in Decorum so it'll be MUCH easier to switch to it. STD you just play.
Once the contest is announced I'll start looking for the betas and it will be a VERY short list. Maybe 2 but I'm going to keep it as much under wraps as possible and will probably be limited to non-participants. What I will say is that HS was a prototype for the design of  a couple of the areas and it WILL contain a maze with an alternate path that's pretty straightforward but in the hard to very hard level.
Overall the mansion will be medium to hard and it's at 80 rooms EXACTLY.

Joe B

Oh and if Vern allows multiple entries I have another small (20-40 room) silly EASY mansion. It will use the same configuration as SFJ, one customized, one standard.
Other non-contest stuff; I've got a Dominator 2 on the boards and a sequel to TOTOMBS that I'm starting the structure of. Matts drawing up the rooms for both of them.

Joe B

I need to get me an imaginative six-year-old (must be seven by now, right?) to draw up mansion plans. That sounds like a hoot. I used to do entire game designs on notebook paper and mail them off to Nintendo, before the Nintendo Entertainment System even existed. It would have been amazing to have somebody translate them into working games right in front of my eyes.

Actually 8 at the end of May. What IS a hoot is listening to him describe the action and how the critters are supposed to interact with the player. One of these days if I remember I'll post one of his drawings and try to do a recording of his explanation. Trust me, sometimes it's a REAL ROFLMAO...

later,

Joe B

ps, what also kills me is when I tell him something won't work and he shows me how it does or I design something and he shows me where it won't work and then I inevitably get the "See Dad, I told you!"
Go have one of your own and see what I mean, of course you also have to accept that you'll be broke and will also get the constant string of "WHY" s.

jb

joeb wrote on 14.03.2007 at 02:37:00:

Pretty much. Still haven't found a Jill I'm happy with but the dogs, monkeys, killer parrots, etc are done. I also don't know if I'm doing any custom music but it goes without saying the sounds will have to be different.

I don't think contest entries will be able to replace sounds. Even if they're wrapped in some tool that makes it easy to switch. That's fine for downloadable mansions, but the idea here is to be able to click on the mansion map within the game, and have the mansion just launch. There is not any provision for replacing sounds, and so I'm pretty sure you won't be able to do this on mansion submissions for the contest. Sorry.

so when is 1.8 coming out vern? You can't start the contest without that...

You can't start the contest without the timed-expansion thing! I wonder when Vern will put it out... Will you also put a expansion demo out, Vern? I'm not sure you would, because nobody's ever done it, to my knowledge.

Oh boy...why do I do these things I do when I know it'll only make things worse...deep breath...here goes:

The update will be out when it's ready. Vern would not just sit on a completed update for no good reason, any more than you would sit on a mansion you had made. I think it's safe to say he wants to see it released more than you do. Just let him finish it.

I'm asking politely here because I don't want to be rude and also because it's not my place to take a tone of authority. Unfortunately, since you've ignored all other polite requests from administrators and otherwise, I have no reason to expect you'll listen to me when I ask politely.

So...why post at all, when I know it will do no good (and only make things worse)? Did you know that a form of Hebrew writing works this way (Opening concept, build to main idea, reiterate/restate opening concept)?

joeb wrote on 14.03.2007 at 04:10:18:

ps, what also kills me is when I tell him something won't work and he shows me how it does or I design something and he shows me where it won't work and then I inevitably get the "See Dad, I told you!" Go have one of your own and see what I mean, of course you also have to accept that you'll be broke and will also get the constant string of "WHY" s. jb

Oh, that sounds fantastic. I can't wait to have a needy, curious, freakishly small human who's smarter and more honest than me hanging around the house.


@Ryos: Ignore 'em. They're young and feisty and they have to pee.

Quote:

Oh, that sounds fantastic. I can't wait to have a needy, curious, freakishly small human who's smarter and more honest than me hanging around the house.

Ah but there are benefits. "Mom, you know Dad really needs the iPod so he can record Discovery Channel stuff for me  and then I can watch on his VR glasses and not disturb your Desperate Housewives or Wife Swap, or....."

Plus sometimes he's generally funny with his comments about the weatherman having to face an angry mob because he couldn't get the forecast right. And things like that. Honesty in children can be a very eye opening experience because I often say to myself I wish I'd said that because he's right. I love the little guy to death because for all those high blood pressure moments there are the moments that can REALLY bring tears to your eyes because of the honesty or lack of inhibition in voicing his true feelings.
Joe B

Not to mention the benefits of grandchildren, which you are privileged to spoil (almost) as you wish and then send them home to their parents when you've had enough  ;D

Quote:

I don't think contest entries will be able to replace sounds. Even if they're wrapped in some tool that makes it easy to switch. That's fine for downloadable mansions, but the idea here is to be able to click on the mansion map within the game, and have the mansion just launch. There is not any provision for replacing sounds, and so I'm pretty sure you won't be able to do this on mansion submissions for the contest. Sorry.

No biggie Vern. Just glad I found out now. I guess that also means we 're limited to using the standard backgrounds too? And the standard music? Only tiles and sprites will be allowed to change so the snake and birds sprites will have to stay in the snake and bird family.

But at least I'll have snow!!

:) :)

Joe B

I think it would only be fair, if no custom-graphics and / or custom-anything mansions will be allowed to participate.

Imagine how unfair it would be, for somebody who cannot do custom stuff, but otherwise builds fantastic mansions.... he'd probably have less chances to win, just because all the custom mansions look so new and brilliant, compared to him using those same old bricks.

No. We need the same chances for everybody. Same tools for everybody. Same set of sprites and tiles for everybody.
Then we can start comparing the mansions.

I agree with AquaMat.

aquaMat wrote on 15.03.2007 at 02:15:46:

Imagine how unfair it would be, for somebody who cannot do custom stuff, but otherwise builds fantastic mansions.... he'd probably have less chances to win, just because all the custom mansions look so new and brilliant, compared to him using those same old bricks.

Trust me. As a judge, I can guarantee that mansions with custom graphics will not have an unfair advantage. Design always comes first and foremost.

I disagree with aquaMat. Competitions are about competing. You wouldn't say to an athlete who has an extraordinary ability that s/he can't use it in competition just because nobody else can match it.

That's assuming Vern is OK with a built-in mansion extending the base graphics, which he seemed to be in his last post. You could make a case that the built-in mansions should showcase the built-in sprites, but you could also make the case that if a built-in mansion includes sprites, those sprites are built-in and the mansion is showcasing them. :) But that decision is, of course, up to Vern, and will probably be clarified more once the official rules are released.

(I would, however, love to see SFJ made separately from the contest, if only because I don't want to see it limited by the contest rules. I want to play it as Joe originally planned to build it. ;))

I'm confused. I thought that 1.08 was about allowing easier custom graphics and that there would be a standard - custom category.  Doesn't matter to me as I've started putting mansions together so they can flip either way but there is a huge difference in look and I thought that was what Vern was after. I guess we should wait until he lays out the rules.

Just my opinion,

Joe B

Quote:

I would, however, love to see SFJ made separately from the contest, if only because I don't want to see it limited by the contest rules. I want to play it as Joe originally planned to build it.

Looking at SFJ there is just no way it could fly without the sounds, especially the mad monkeys. I tried those rooms flat and they just didn't cut it. So...

Now we have a PRE-QUEL that will actually come BEFORE the SEQUEL. So how did Jack get Lost and Jill have to go searching for him?

Jack Malone - Ghosthunter
(And for those who disagree with the name because ghosts have a reputation of being EVIL I point out Casper
8-) 8-) 8-))

Jack goes to ________ to snatch gold from a nasty ghost and his _________. He runs around in a _________
and thru ________ and finally arrives at the ____________ where he uses his smarts to beat the critters and puzzles in the _____________ and gets to the gold.
End of JMG
BUT HE NEVER RETURNS.......
Jack's sister Jill gets worried and sets out on a quest to locate her brother but first needs to visit his mansion to get clues as to where exactly he went. The clues lead her on a romp thru different scenarios until she discovers the ____________ and realizes that's where Jack is and sets about to rescue him.

The above accomplishes 2 things; first I can do Ghosthunter with or without custom graphics (custom obviously prefferable). Second I don't have to shortchange SFG by limiting it to 80 rooms. The original was around 118 and with scenario I could see it getting to 150 pretty easily.
There's also a third thing which is being a proponent of Murphy's law I already have the structure for Ghosthunter on paper (72 rooms) and will just need to build and test it now. A week or two at the most.

Thoughts??????

Joe B

I forgot about the standard/custom categories. I don't know whether that's happening or not. That would make things easier, but there don't seem to be very many people who have the tech know-how to do the custom graphics. You did a whole tutorial on it, though, so everybody who wants to put the time in to learn should be on equal footing.

But you're right: part of the expansion's purpose is to showcase MM's ability to support easier custom graphics, and I'm sure Vern would like to encourage mansion designers to include them. For my part, I consider the basic design of the mansion before anything else, but if a mansion designer makes custom graphics, and they contribute to the atmosphere and fun of a mansion, then that's a part of good design.

I just wanted to emphasize that if we do judge mansions with custom graphics directly against those without, the newness and brilliantness of the new graphics would not give a mediocre mansion an unfair advantage over a great mansion.

And let's remember, the expansion will come with a full set of new and fresh graphics for everyone to play with. So to a certain extent, everybody who participates will be using custom graphics.

And lastly, the way the program has worked since 1.0.7 (or 1.0.6, I forget), is that you can add as many or as few custom tiles to your mansions as you like. You don't have to overhaul the whole graphics engine. A mansion could use one or two new tiles very effectively. We just haven't seen a lot of that yet, what with the trend towards total mods. You can get some very nice effects without having a lot of graphic art skill. Take it from me.

joeb wrote on 15.03.2007 at 03:43:56:

Quote: Jack Malone - Ghosthunter (And for those who disagree with the name because ghosts have a reputation of being EVIL I point out Casper 8-) 8-) 8-)) That's right. Pour gasoline on that fire. [quote] Thoughts??????

Have you seen the screenshot of the new expansion monsters? You may want to wait for that before you build Ghosthunter.

Quote:

That's right. Pour gasoline on that fire.

:-[ :-[quote]
Have you seen the screenshot of the new expansion monsters? You may want to wait for that before you build Ghosthunter. [/quote]
NO! Where?


Quote:

A mansion could use one or two new tiles very effectively. We just haven't seen a lot of that yet, what with the trend towards total mods. You can get some very nice effects without having a lot of graphic art skill. Take it from me.

Uhhh, the Money Pit for example maybe. I only used 5 or 6 custom tiles there.

I thought the contest would be before the expansion pack came out. Are new critters with 1.08 or the expansion pack.


Joe B

Man, I looked for that screenshot, and now I can't find it. Maybe it was on the old forums. There was a ghost in it, and I think some kind of troll and a bug.

I thought that the contest was going to be with the expansion pack, which would of course include the new mosters and graphics. Vern was talking about releasing a limited version of the expansion pack to participants. I'd count on that.

I forgot the Money Pit had custom tiles. I'll have to go back and look at that - see what you did. I think I got stuck on it and never finished, so I might have missed some stuff.

If there should be 2 categories, as Joe has mentioned...that is a GREAT idea (and I hadn't heard about it before).... then I would feel it's great to have custom-graphic mansions in the contest.

But (and remember I'm about to release a mansion with custom graphics & music myself) to compare normal & custom-graphic mansions in the same category is IMHO not very fair.

And it's not the same, as someone else has put forward, as 2 athletes with different levels of ability.
If you have a BUILDING contest (not a sports  or anything contest) you have to give ALL participants the same material and tools to build with, otherwise it simply not fair.

So why not really have 2 categories.... one for "normal" and one for "customised" graphics.


Ahem....BTW...what is SFJ ??

Searching For Jill

Quote:

Searching For Jill

BRAPPPPPPPP (really loud annoying buzzer)


SEARCH FOR JACK

Joe B

Ooops  :-[

brell,

Sorry, just joking you realize. I'm going stir crazy waiting for a UNIX process to finish so right now I have nothing better to do than play with email and work on mansions.


8-)

Joe B

Oh.....  sure !
(Didn't realize that Search For Jack had an abbreviation yet   :D ;D )