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General Custom Mansions Area (Mac and Windows) >> Custom Mansions / Art >> To be or not to be?
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Message started by Freddy on 25.02.2007 at 20:32:01

Title: To be or not to be?
Post by Freddy on 25.02.2007 at 20:32:01
That is the question!


Psychotronic wrote on 23.02.2007 at 11:35:36:
... I thought everybody was all excited for the custom graphics. ...

To have no misunderstandings, this quote is only a small extract out of some talk between joeb and Psychotronic about Dominator. But it feels like a good start to say something about the complex issue around the change of tiles, sprites, backgrounds, sounds and music. Is my list complete?

Maybe I first need to say very honest and open that as a designer, I don't think I will do these kinds of changes. The first reason is very simple: I don't have the skills to do it. Except the changes of the backgrounds and the music perhaps. But changing music has other objections as we know. But there is more. I still believe in the original Midnight Mansion game and its possibilities. Orpheus and Whisky Bar were perfect, although small examples to prove that. It is not a secret, because I did already said on the previous boards, that I am not one of the MM-addicts that is asking for sequels, begging for more or other enemies etc. The only thing that I did like to have (and is not to come) is an other kind of "light" with a limited effect like the maps. But to keep things clear, it is not because I am not asking for expansion packs with new enemies etc. or sequels that I am against it. And that I don't like to play mansions with changed "stuff". So far my personal point of view.

Much more important is the general point of view. The Midnight Mansion game is changing in a way that not everybody likes. I know that from several emails and personal messages that I got, as administrator. It was not easy to make a good and serious analysis of this complex issue, but here is the result of my "investigation".

1 After the release of MM 1.0.8 things will be different, but as joeb already said, the swapping of files before and after playing "changed mansions" does bother players. It is not enough customized now and does often seem to ask too much efforts for a lot of people.

2 Second important thing that comes back again and again is: the matter of identification. When Jack stays Jack, the snakes are suddenly in the grass, a vine seems to be a rope and a walking skeleton became a mummy, nothing seems to be wrong. Problems start when players don't recognize any more which enemies and prizes are which and if that new-thing-they-see is a prize or an enemy. Last step in this story was the replacing from Jack by JAC.

3 A less important point, but anyway to keep in mind, is that there are forummembers who don't have objections against "changed mansions", but are hoping that it will not only be used for SF-stories "in Space". There are other possibilities enough. It is "only" a matter of imagination.

I made three conclusions, which are no more than MY conclusions.

A. There are gamefreaks who like playing all kind of games. These people seem to be those who are always interested in all new games and thus also for the "changed mansions" in MM as well. There is a large group of players that is exited about StarCraft, Dominator etc. At the same time there are as well players (like me, but that doesn't matter) for whom Midnight Mansion is their only game. It is a game they like, or sometimes be very addicted to, and are more or less conservative about changes. I have no idea about the size of both groups. But maybe that doesn't matter. As long as there are enough designers to feed both kind of players with new mansions, it feels okay to me.

B. In the margin of the combination of the points 1 & 2 there came a question. Designers of "changed mansions", hold your breath. Is it possible to FIRST make a playable unchanged version, BEFORE starting all the changes where is an other public for? (I think that the StarCraft episodes are playable. Dominator and what I saw yet from the Discotheque of Doom look pretty weird.) The purpose is of course that the mansions should be perfectly playable with and without the changes by both groups of players.

C. It gives me an idea for the boards as well. It could be good to split the custom mansions area in two categories: changed and unchanged mansions. Just as a service to our forummembers. Since I know that there are two different, but large groups of MM-players, it may be good that they perfectly know what they are starting with.

:question Begs for replies I think.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by sherryl199 on 25.02.2007 at 23:17:19
Hi Freddy -

You "took most of the words right out of my mouth" to coin a phrase. I love Jack, not crazy about JAC type changes. I didn't 'grow up' with all the space games so don't have an afinity for them. I am also very worried that all the changes will lead to 1st person shooter type games - what I definitely do NOT want to play and don't want my grandson playing either. I would guess that was some of JoeB's original motivation for games to play with his son. There are a lot of younger players who have different ideas - their creativity is boggling!!! I do think there is room for both - I just hope that the new doesn't overwhelm the old and result in a schism between the creators of the new and old. I can remember the early custom mansions after the origiinal 8 - what an amazing surprise just when we thought MM couldn't get any better! Now look what has happened.

I have another concern. There seems to be a fair amount of contention among some MM fans. My guess, from reading their letters, is some old grudges and pet peeves. This is a game with a huge diversity in fans - age, geography, skills - so some differences are to be expected. I am just sensing a lot of it lately. I think these new mansions are not always bringing out the best in everyone.  I may be way off the mark and just sensitive because I don't want MM to change and lose its "innocence" for lack of a better word!

BTW - I made a duplicate copy of my MM folder and then left the space sprites set up in one of the copies. So far that works although I have not explored it a great deal. I play the StarCraft episodes with the original MM sprites - works just fine for me and I like the way it looks. It doesn't seem to interfere with the difficulty of the games.

So there - my quick thoughts.

Thanks for the post. I guess it will illicit some "interesting"??!! responsed.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by aquaMat on 26.02.2007 at 00:49:04
Very interesting points you both have made.

Even though I know that there are people who do and others who do not love custom graphics, I don't think it is a good idea to "force" the gap (or schism) between those groups (for example by putting their resp. stuff and discussions in two different categories), as I not only think that the two groups can very well exist peacefully next and with each other in the world of MM, but - and that's more important - I strongly believe there are a lot of peoiple out there, who are not so sure if they belong only in one of, or in any of those 2 groups of people.

Just take myself as an example (sorry):  I absolutely like MM in its original form, and love designing mansions with the original graphics and trying to work around the limitations of the original tiles and sprites to com e up with something new. On the other hand, I also love and design custom graphics mansions.

And some more than others:  I am absolutely no fan of Science Fiction, let alone SciFi-games....so, while I marvel at all the work that has gone into Dominator, I'm not too much of a fan of it, compared to "Mummy's Revenger" or TOTOMBS, which I both think to be fantastic. (But as a designer, I know how fantastic Dominator is....)

So, which group am I belonging too ??

Please be careful !!  
Let us not initiate aversities and "opponent groups" where there are in reality only several different points of view

.... as always, BTW.  

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by ryos on 26.02.2007 at 01:19:29
Wow. MM fans are certainly a diverse bunch!  :o

Forgive me if what I have to say sounds offensive, because I don't mean it to be, but I feel like there's only one way to say it and that's the offensive way. Here goes.

What are you all worried about? In all the years of fan mods to video games, I have never heard of people actually complaining that a mod (short for modification) modified the base game. Midnight Mansion is not some temple whose purity must be defended. It's a game that people play and enjoy customizing.

Now that's off my chest (;)), I can address your conclusions with civility.

1) I agree this is too painful as it stands now. In fact, I feel strongly enough about it that I wrote a utility to take care of the switching for me, every time I play. I've been waiting to share it until I can find the time to design an appropriate icon, but if people want it now and are willing to put up with a space-themed (*gasp* ;D) icon (because it's an adaptation of a utility I wrote for a space-themed game), then I'll post it now.

2) I really consider "total conversions" like Dominator as new games. We were all new to MM once, and had to familiarize ourselves with the mechanics. I see no problem with doing the same for a new game that happens to use the MM game engine. If you can let go of the notion that a game engine was built for just one game, a lot of possibilities open up to you as a player and designer.

A) Guilty as charged. :P

B) I disagree. If you've ever opened Dominator with the default graphics (which I did once just for kicks), you'll see that the replaced sprites don't map one-to-one to the ones that would be used if the graphics weren't customized. This is asking people, who have already put a huge amount of time into original artwork, to also double their effort on mansion building, since they would have to re-place each and every tile.

C) I have no opinion (really!). Do as you will.

As a final note, the administrators are always talking about not attempting to limit the creativity of designers, but that (unless my reading comprehension sucks :D) is exactly what seems to be going on here. Not every mansion is for everyone; for example, House of Wonders is both way over my head skill-wise and not my cup of tea design-wise, but do you hear me complaining about its existence? I recognize that it's just not for me, and don't seek to limit the enjoyment others may glean from it.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Wingy on 26.02.2007 at 01:32:35

Freddy wrote on 25.02.2007 at 20:32:01:
B. In the margin of the combination of the points 1 & 2 there came a question. Designers of "changed mansions", hold your breath. Is it possible to FIRST make a playable unchanged version, BEFORE starting all the changes where is an other public for? ...


Absolutely no! It takes the whole idea of custom graphics right out of the mansion! :o But it would be ok to make a board for custom graphics mansions. (I think the name Changed mansions sounds abit.. against them)


sherryl199 wrote on 25.02.2007 at 23:17:19:
...What I definitely do NOT want to play and don't want my grandson playing either...


If you looking at Ted, because he has a gun, doesn't mean its a 1st person shooting game! And the gun doen't have any ammo! He just spins it instead of a yo-yo!

Like what ryos said, what are you worried about, Freddy? I'm just trying to make MM a better game with the world of Ted & StarCraft!

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by sherryl199 on 26.02.2007 at 03:23:17
Wingy - I didn't mean Ted was a 'shooter' at all. My point was that there are a lot of games available if one wants a shooter game. One of the huge plusses for me is that MM is not one and suitable for little kids and us big kids.

I'm still unsure if there is a downside to making a duplicate copy of MM and installing the custom graphics for a particular game in that copy. At this point I have Dominator in a duplicate so I can switch back and forth between that and the original MM sprites. I had StarCraft in the duplicate but found I can play that series with the original sprites if I'm too lazy to switch - although the SC graphics certainly contribute to the fun!

Sherry

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Spiak on 26.02.2007 at 04:34:43
As strictly a player (the one mansion I tried to design never got past 8 rooms) I've got to say that I prefer the original mansions and the early custom mansions. Some of the more recent ones have been a major challenge to "get into". But that is just my personal opinion. I like the exploration aspects of the game more than the competitive element. I played Dominator without changing the graphics, and with the exception of some weird looking rooms the only problem I had was the gauntlet. I keep missing the platforms and falling. I don't mean to discourage anyone, but I'd love to see more like MMaM (except not so darn big).

Just my 2 cents,
Spiak

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Psychotronic on 26.02.2007 at 04:35:24
I pretty much completely agree with Ryos, and I'll add this. The Midnight Mansion game isn't going in one direction or another. There's what, four or five custom graphics mansions out of a hundred? We have twice as many active designers as we did a few months ago, and they're all making different kinds of mansions. We should consider ourselves blessed.

Wingy and Joe might be making more traditional mansions if the option wasn't there to add new graphics, but then again, they might lose interest. They're just going where the muse takes them, and every player has the choice to play their mansions or not. If they get too far out in left field, maybe people will lose their enthusiasm for the new mansions, and they'll have to get back to basics - and then so be it. I really don't see a problem.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Freddy on 26.02.2007 at 05:27:41
Thanks for all the replies!

Two very important things, to keep things very transparent.

1 I was not "worried" at all about what is going on. And didn't say or suggest that, I hope. That was anyway certainly NOT my message in my post when starting this topic. After I saw the interesting talk between joeb and Psychotronic, I only thought, as "administrator", that I did a good job with informing everybody as neutral as possible.

2 This issue is also not a matter of black or white. And is of course not a schism. Young Wingy saw the point of my proposal for the boards fastest. That is only a matter of organizing our forums, which is the administrators' responsability as well. But not without democratic consultation over here! When suggesting to make 2 categories for changed and unchanged custom mansions everybody should have THREE choises in future. Sorry, that I didn't explain that some more in my first post. One can not only choose between A OR B, but of course also A AND B. I just thought it would make the life of ALL our MM-addicts of ANY kind more simple. No?

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by joeb on 26.02.2007 at 05:40:39
Since I seem to be the person who is pointed to and quoted a lot when it comes to custom mansions I guess I need to offer my point of view here. Before I do I will qualify my comments with this. My goal is not to annoy anyone but to offer what may be what I consider contrary, but nonetheless valid positions to several earlier posters. One of them being that I would like to see MM turn into a 1st person shooter. I am and have ALWAYS been a fan of strategy games and quite honestly am bored by sitting there just shooting at things appearing on the screen and Matt wanted to do a space theme. Personally I'd like to on my own do an adventure thru several castles in several different countries almost like a James Bond movie. That said......

I know my first analogy here will probably be not taken well and it might be said that it doesn't fit but it most certainly does. "Get a horse" When motorized vehicles first appeared there was a huge outcry against them and a lot of sentiment that they wouldn't last and could never replace the horse. I think everybody can agree on what happened, horseback riding has become a hobby and a sport but not the mainstream for transportation. What is the lesson? You can't stop progress nor should you try cause it's just not going to happen. Has Vern stopped development of MM? No. And what are the latest changes going to be for? Enhanced functionality for custom graphics, as well as a lot of other features.

I mentioned in one of my posts that I might do a "standard" mansion just to get rid of the tag of "rebel". Psychotronic hit me square between the eyes with a valid truth. Do I enjoy making standard mansions? Not nearly as much as the custom ones because then it becomes much easier to "theme". I want to do a space theme, fine I do a set of graphics specifically for that. I wanted to do an adventure through the pyramids and the desert. Could I have done that with the standard graphics? Maybe, but the modified graphics REALLY got the look and feel I wanted. Dominator would have been nigh on impossible to get to look like a space adventure without the control panels, droids and other space specific objects. And for TOTOMB I needed jungles and mountains.

As far as making more traditional mansions if the option was there, Psychotronic hit the nail right on the head again. I think we would have lost interest. I never liked pigeonholes and when it comes to breaking out of them, yes I AM a rebel. Besides the fun of playing BOTH kinds of mansions and YES we do play both, just got done with This Old Mansion. The ability to play and design both types AND yes we plan on doing a couple of more traditional ones,  is a wonderful option.

But now we come the issue that bothers me the most about this situation. Right now 2 of the board administrators have communicated to me that they both like playing and designing standard mansions and their idea of MM was little Jack jumping over spiders. AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! I'd like to say that again; because your enjoyment of MM comes from that type of game you're not  a bad person and if you enjoy hoping on the horse then do it. That's your choice, but at the same time don't frown on me because I like to drive a Ferrari, or a Hummer or a motorcycle, or a speedboat, etc., etc., etc.  Don't make it difficult to get what I like to do out to others like me. And if there are others out there who get the same enjoyment then why put us (or yourselves) in a pigeonhole. You do custom mansions, that's YOUR board, we do STANDARD, this is our board. What's wrong with having everything in one place and just stating a type? Custom - Traditional. Again quoting from, actually paraphrasing the wisdom of Psychotronic here. If the people don't like your mansions then they won't play them and maybe you should rethink what you're building.

Matt and I will continue to build mansions of both types and although for many of you, IT'S JUST A GAME. I'm sorry but for us it's a learning tool. Matt has learned simple physics, logic, sound, music, computer OS basics, graphics.... Why shouldn't we share that? I made a big mistake when I left the board the first time because I felt that the customizations I was doing weren't important to anybody. Email proved I was wrong I have no intention of making the same mistake again. There ARE other people out there interested and there ARE others like Wingy who have some much they'd like to do but don't understand how to get there. I can (and have offered on several occasions) to help him because he's interested in doing what I've been able to.

Enough already. The best thing that could happen IMNSHO is to find some who IS interested in customization and allow them to be the Custom administrator. Then there would be no issues in who likes what type of mansion.

Joe B

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Freddy on 26.02.2007 at 06:45:00
So, everything under the sun is in tune and in Midnight Mansion the sun is eclipsed by the moon. ;)

Well. Administrators. That is like being the Pope. You don't WANT that. You are being asked for. And once you are, you try to make the best of it.

Although I have my personal favourites about mansions - I still don't like Falcon Manor btw - I will NEVER be NOT neutral about launching any mansions. Of any one. So there is certainly nothing to worry about.

Reminder!
We can not deny that there are mansions WITH and WITHOUT changed "stuff" and that we have customers that like both or only one kind of mansions. I respect all designers AND all players. And I respect them all for a very simple reason. I just like the Midnight Manion game. Including its temparary bugs, including its possibilities to change graphics etc. and including giving me (and Toybox among others) the chance to expose stunning novelties. Each has his/her own interests. MM-life is oh so simple.

So, everything under the sun is in tune and in Midnight Mansion the sun is eclipsed by the moon. ;)

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by brell on 26.02.2007 at 06:57:23
My two ikr (Icelandic kronas) on this:  We are all different people, that, while we all love MM, still have different aspect on the game (is that the right expression here?).  Being players or designers (or both), some of us only want the good old custom mansions while others would prefer experimenting and then there are those who like to do both.  (And btw, there is a lot of experimental stuff that can be done without changing graphics, music etc).  I'm sure all of us have some favourite mansions that they play more often than others.  No harm in that.  And there is no harm in experimenting either.  So my conclusion is:  It is the designer's right to do what they want in their mansions.  And it is the player's right to play them .... or not!

And one other point:  I appreciate any comments on my mansions that help me becoming a better mansion builder.  But I reserve the right of not taking any notice from critics that say something like "your mansion(s) suck(s) because there is too much/little of this or that".

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Freddy on 26.02.2007 at 07:02:32
Well put, brell.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Wingy on 26.02.2007 at 07:55:37
So tell me Freddy... whats to be or not to be?  :-/

And you said that Young Wingy saw the point first... well about that... I'm not that young, I'm a teenager and I'm 5 ft. 4 and I can lift over 50 Kgs!  ::) Just wanted to let you know... I'm not that good at making long posts... my question is simple.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Freddy on 26.02.2007 at 15:59:04
Today I realized that there were only 13 minutes between my 2nd post and joeb's. Because of the length of joeb's story, I am pretty sure that he missed mine. And if he would have seen that extra report, I think he wouldn't have been bothering at all about the administrators. Since there is no link at all between this current issue and a probably changed qualification of the organisators of these boards.

When going back to my 1st post now, I think it was a very clear and correct report, in which I nowhere said or suggested that I am against the existence of "changed" mansions or prejudiced about them in a certain way. I play them all, btw.

The variety of the replies by forummembers proved that what I knew out of PMs and emails was right and so, the issue definitely deserved a place on the boards to talk about. Adding or replacing administrators to avoid issues like these? Sorry, sounds like censorship.

To answer teenager Wingy's question ... there is no answer yet about my "green" suggestion. As usual we will listen carefully to everybody and then decide what we best do. Or in this case: not do. And that decision will be like a mansion. It is possible that some people will not like it. In a matter of fact, even this topic is like a mansion. When you don't like it, stay away. There are enough other topics.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Freddy on 26.02.2007 at 21:47:45

ryos wrote on 26.02.2007 at 01:19:29:
... In fact, I feel strongly enough about it that I wrote a utility to take care of the switching for me, every time I play. I've been waiting to share it until I can find the time to design an appropriate icon, but if people want it now ..., then I'll post it now. ...

Now that everybody knows that this thread is not a poll about pro or contra the use of custom art ... back to business.

I am certainly interested in your tool, but I am just wondering if it wouldn't be better to wait untill MM 1.0.8 is released, because I think that your utility will need some changes. Meanwhile, maybe you can explain a little bit more about how it works?

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by joeb on 26.02.2007 at 22:23:20
I have an opinion. There are many others like it but this one is mine:

I feel that custom graphics are currently the black sheep of the administrators. You can post as many long flowery anecdotal responses as you wish but that is my and quite frankly other's opinions.

I am blessed with 2 children. My older is going to law school. Considering I never thought, based on her high school performance she would go anywhere. At her birthday party yesterday I apologized for being so wrong in front of the family and told her how proud I was. Her favorite pastime of late is debating politics with me. She plans on being a death penalty lawyer.
I spend so much time talking about Matt there is nothing else I can communicate about him other than being a brilliant little boy he has an ADHD dark side which often is difficult to deal with.
I work for a major US bank as a senior systems engineer and deal with anywhere from 50 to 200 emails a day designing, developing and supporting complex ETL operations. Occasionally I have to travel to Minneapolis for the job, or Atlanta, or Des Moines, or San Francisco, or.......
I have a Dodge SRT-4 which I race on weekends and I bowl in 2 leagues. I have a small consulting business which I use to pay for my racing habit. I'm also a 4th degree Black Belt and teach Iai, Issyn Rhyu karate and am in the World Karate Hall of Fame for Kendo. I volunteered over 400 hours last year for Habitat for Humanity, Battered Womens Shelters and for fun I'm the Asst. Chairman for Fiesta Bowl Parade Marshals.

In my spare time I play ONE GAME. Midnight Mansion, period. I also find time to put mansions together and like everything else I do I put my best efforts into it.

SO,

I will continue to build and play mansions. I will continue to answer questions when I can and ask them when I need an answer. When I'm done with a mansion I will send it to the board. If the mansion gets posted that's great. If it doesn't and anybody wants it they can request it directly from me at jbanko@cox.net. But I WILL NOT continue what I consider pointless conversations because I do have a life outside of Midnight Mansion and I am wasting time responding to this kind of silliness. It makes no sense to go back and pull items out of context just to prove some silly little point. The fact of the responses themselves is proof enough of the opinions.

Joe B



Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by brell on 26.02.2007 at 23:07:23
I am sorry if you take it that we are against custom graphics, Joe.  This thread was created for discussion about pros and cons of normal vs. custom graphics and the opinion of the players and designers.  In my small post above I cannot find any evidence that I am against custom graphics in any way.  This thread is in no way intended as a debate against custom graphice designers, which have put much effort into their work, often with stunning results.

Now we all know that some players just love these custom graphic/music mansions, while others find it difficult to cope with (some of) the changes.  Like there was someone complaining about the mask of Jack in Wingy's Star Craft episodes, because his or her old eyes had troubles following the new Jack around the screen.  It is also, for some of the older people, a question of enough contrast between different tiles and sprites vs. tiles.

So as I said before:  Designers, design at your free will but don't expect everyone to like all your mansions.  Players, play at your free will but don't expect every mansion to fit your MM needs.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by ryos on 26.02.2007 at 23:22:53

Freddy wrote on 26.02.2007 at 21:47:45:

ryos wrote on 26.02.2007 at 01:19:29:
... In fact, I feel strongly enough about it that I wrote a utility to take care of the switching for me, every time I play. I've been waiting to share it until I can find the time to design an appropriate icon, but if people want it now ..., then I'll post it now. ...

Now that everybody knows that this thread is not a poll about pro or contra the use of custom art ... back to business.

I am certainly interested in your tool, but I am just wondering if it wouldn't be better to wait untill MM 1.0.8 is released, because I think that your utility will need some changes. Meanwhile, maybe you can explain a little bit more about how it works?


I doubt I'll need to change a thing, unless Vern decides to rename the Custom Mansions and Game Data folders. The tool (let's call it by its name, that will be easier: Decorum) just looks in Game Data and all of its subfolders for files whose names match those of the customized versions, kept in a folder inside the program's bundle. It then moves those MM default files into a holding directory, also inside the bundle, and puts the customized variants in their place.

It also installs the mansion file, and launches Midnight Mansion. This all happens when you press a button. Push a different button, and the whole process is reversed.

It basically just takes the "manual" out of "manual file swapping."

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Freddy on 26.02.2007 at 23:25:27
Under extremely difficult circumstances I did release Dominator asap. You know me long enough to be sure that I really couldn't do a final walkthrough at that time, although I wanted to.

And I am beta-testing aquaMat's Discotheque of Doom that has custom graphics as well!

Black sheep? Where is your point, Joe?

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Scout on 27.02.2007 at 00:45:00
there was someone complaining about the mask of Jack in Wingy's Star Craft episodes, because his or her old eyes had troubles following the new Jack around the screen.

Brell, that was me. (And I'm a 'her'). It wasn't a complaint, but an observation that was meant to be helpful to the designer. (Wingy, I think it was). I certainly hope he was not offended by my input; I would think that would be something that designers would want to know.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Psychotronic on 27.02.2007 at 01:38:34
Why do I feel like 90% of this conversation is not actually happening in this thread? Guys, if there's something happening primarily in emails and PMs, let's not drag it onto the boards. It just poisons the waters and makes innocent bystanders nervous. I think most of us are happy just playing the mansions we're interested in and ignoring the ones we're not, and occasionally expressing our opinions about it. I don't see a need for any re-organization of the boards. We're doing fine dealing with individual issues as they come up.

This thread, on the other hand, is not fine, because it's crossed the line into personal territory. I don't know or care whether the line was crossed here or behind the scenes, but it's not cool, and it's not appropriate for the Midnight Mansion forums. If you have to press the issue, do it by PM or email. Like most of the regulars here, I'll bet, I like to be able to read any thread on the forums without encountering a lot of tension or conflict, and part of the administrators' job should be to lock any thread that is no longer civil, for the good of the boards as a whole.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by VernJensen on 27.02.2007 at 03:42:59

Psychotronic wrote on 27.02.2007 at 01:38:34:
Why do I feel like 90% of this conversation is not actually happening in this thread? Guys, if there's something happening primarily in emails and PMs, let's not drag it onto the boards. It just poisons the waters and makes innocent bystanders nervous. I think most of us are happy just playing the mansions we're interested in and ignoring the ones we're not, and occasionally expressing our opinions about it. I don't see a need for any re-organization of the boards. We're doing fine dealing with individual issues as they come up..


Agreed. I think it *would* be nice to have the description for a mansion mention if it has custom graphics, or if it is a "total replacement" that requires you to move files around, so downloaders know what they're downloading. But that would only be a nice convenience to have, and nothing else is necessary.


Psychotronic wrote on 27.02.2007 at 01:38:34:
This thread, on the other hand, is not fine, because it's crossed the line into personal territory. I don't know or care whether the line was crossed here or behind the scenes, but it's not cool, and it's not appropriate for the Midnight Mansion forums. If you have to press the issue, do it by PM or email. Like most of the regulars here, I'll bet, I like to be able to read any thread on the forums without encountering a lot of tension or conflict, and part of the administrators' job should be to lock any thread that is no longer civil, for the good of the boards as a whole.


Yes, let's try to keep this board friendly. Life's too short to get into arguments about games. :-)

Everyone please try to remember to be nice, especially to mansion designers who have put a lot of work into their mansions. That doesn't mean you can't offer "constructive criticism" but do try to avoid "I hate this" kind of comments. If you hate something, simply don't play it. ;-)

Thanks for the comments, Psychotronic. Let's end this thread here, and get back to friendly discussions about how to make mansions, etc.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by aquaMat on 27.02.2007 at 19:58:41
See what happened.

Y'all have probably not read my post above, which was the second or third in this thread, where I said:

Please be careful !!  
Let us not initiate aversities and "opponent groups" where there are in reality only several different points of view



So I agree with Psychotronic, everybody please cool it...!!

And to Joe B. ....don't be fooled into thinking any of this discussion was against you, if you look on the (inofficial) polls we held a couple weeks ago, somewhere else on this forum, you'll notice that almost everybody named Mummy's and TOTOMBS among their top ten fave mansions, including myself, brell and God knows who. (That was before the release of Dominator).

I am a huge fan of TOTOMBS and Mummy's, and the only reason Dominator is clocking in at the third place is that I'm not too much into SciFi.  So please....continue making those wonderful mansions....

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Semi-Native on 05.03.2007 at 02:03:36
Well, this is my first day back after being in Jamaica for a week, and I've been trying to catch up with all the posts. Not an easy task!  8-)

I have to say that I've been a little worried lately, too, that MM was eventually going to change into a space themed, shooter type game. Or if not exactly a shooter, that it would become more complicated with picking up different tools and having to remember more keys to do different tasks.

This post has set my mind at ease, I feel that MM will remain true to its original look and feel for those of us that want it that way. I sure hope so, anyway. I don't always switch the files to use the custom graphics, sometimes it's just too much trouble. When I saw the instructions for Dominator, it was just too much to read for now. Maybe in a couple days, after I get back in my routine. But I do think the custom graphics are awesome, and I appreciate all the hard work and creativity that goes into them.

So don't flame me, I think there's room for everybody. I just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents worth.
8-)

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Wingy on 05.03.2007 at 04:08:24
Oook... so what is this getting to?   :-? Anyways... Vern, why don't you make it so you can add a SND resource in the mansion file and I.D.s for graphics to work so you don't have to move around files that much?  :o

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Psychotronic on 05.03.2007 at 08:27:43
Wingy, Vern has already added sprite replacement to the next update.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Wingy on 05.03.2007 at 09:42:28
@Psycho: I KNOW!!!

@Vern: But what about sounds and graphics!?  :o

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Psychotronic on 06.03.2007 at 02:58:13
What do you mean by graphics? Backgrounds?

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Wingy on 06.03.2007 at 03:41:03
I mean like, for example, the inventory and stuff! Not the backgrounds.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by joeb on 06.03.2007 at 07:40:11
The inventory items are in the Midnight Mansion Graphics file.

Title: Re: To be or not to be?
Post by Wingy on 07.03.2007 at 03:16:40
........ I know! :o I said that! :o *sigh*

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