Hey all,

Didn't want you to think I've just been doing boring work......

Here's a section of the map from a new MJ mansion. And GASP!!!! yes you're seeing standard graphics. This is an experiment along the lines that Freddy proposed. A mansion that could be played either custom or standard. It won't be that big, may 40-60 rooms. And I decided to go WAY out on a female character. This isn't Jill, it's Shimi, daughter of Leia. No space based adventure but a futuristic Dune type custom side to Helter Skullter. We'll see...

Joe B

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Observation post

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Shimi. The colors look very good against desert sand colors and will help with edge fuzziness when I shrink her down to 64X64.

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Wow she looks... okward...  :P

Shimi. Hmmm. My husband may become an MM fan after all!!!!

And... why is she holding a light saber?  :-? This is MM, not starwars! So what if she's from starwars, but still, she's in MM now!  :o

she looks like a brainless zombie right now, I mean, she's staring into space! ...maybe that's why she has a lightsaber  ;D :) :P

That model has huge... .. ...tracts of land!

Seriously, I liked the other one better. This one seems to be taking the Tomb Raider influence a bit too far.

Remember, this is not JILL. 3/4 of the detail will be lost at 64X64. I actually did her for a friend's daughter who is doing a comic strip project for school. When she gets put through the cartoon shaders a lot of the detail will go so the more you put in the better the final character will look because of the "hint" of detail or something like that. As soon as I can find the proper clothes for Jill I'll be doing a post of her. In a cartoon/digital reality/anime/manga world do you know how hard it is to find a non-sexed out female character mesh? I actually found one but the problem was the nose was WAY too big and other parts of her anatomy suffered from the same characteristics. There was another one that would have been PERFECT for Jack's aunt. Only problem was she was in a nurse outfit and I couldn't get rid of the stupid hat without screwing up the head mesh.

Joe B

@ joeb

Helter Skullter does not ring a bell to me. Is that referring to something or someone?

The picture in your first post looks promising. Maybe just a little remark that was also an issue with Wingy's Volcanis. When there are rooms with a lot of lava, Jack is getting very slowly with older and slowlier computers. That is why Wingy made a 2nd version with less lava.

From Answers.com
hel·ter-skel·ter (hĕl'tər-skĕl'tər) pronunciation
adv.
  1. In disorderly haste; confusedly; pell-mell.
  2. Haphazardly.
adj.
  1. Carelessly hurried and confused.
  2. Haphazard.
n.
Turmoil; confusion.

From Wikipedia
Helter Skelter" is a song written by Paul McCartney[1][2] (credited to Lennon/McCartney) for The Beatles album, The White Album. An early example of heavy metal music, McCartney deliberately set out to make as loud and dirty a sound as possible. Like other songs on the The White Album, Charles Manson misinterpreted the song as supporting his delusional prophecies regarding a race war.

aquaMat also made a very good point about HS (Helter Skullter) fitting into the "Mansion Family", a connotation to the MANSON FAMILY let by the world famous (or at least US famous) whack job Charles Manson.

HS is merely an exercise in confusing the mind with trying to find stability (a platform to land on) in a background of movement while trying to avoid MONSTERS most of whom have a skeleton skull. HS is out in the Free Up/Down section of the forums.

Hope this helps,

;)

Joe B

Charles Mansion and 'family' were infamous rather than famous for hideous, heinous crimes - nothing there to want to be tied to in any way.

Never heard of Charles MANSION although I'm sure there's one or two of them. See there, Freud just slipped past your conscious will and associated mansion with manson.
:-[ :-[ :-[
How many fans of Beach Boys music realize Charlie lived with Brian Wilson and actually influenced one or two tunes. I still love to tool down the road in my SRT4 listening to 409, Little Deuce Coupe, Help Me Rhonda, Good Vibrations, Sloop John B, etc, etc.

You say potato, I say potahto, a rose by any other name. Charles was still a world class wacko. Using skullter instead of skelter also free's up the tight definition related to Charlie boy. Once again, a matter of choice as has been pointed out. If the name of a mansion puts you off, don't play it.

8-)

joeb

You're absolute right Joe.... except I have to correct one tiny bit... it was Dennis, not Brian Wilson who - for a short while - was friends with (a pre-murder) Charlie Manson.

And the Beach Boys even nicked Manson's song "Cease To Exist" and recorded it, albeit with a different title.

And before some over-politically-correct people get upset:  My calling my new mansions "The Mansion Family" was of course mainly based on that funny word-play....and does in no way whatsoever express or indicate that I think the Tate & LaBianca murders were "cool" or something.  BUT: Manson as a figure and the whole case is indeed an interesting part of history.....  and you can accuse Manson of many things, but NOT of having no charisma or being boring.

I remember (in the early 80s) when I read Ed Sanders' interesting book "The Family"...still the best book on the subject, BTW... that I was impressed..... but not by the man, let alone his crimes.... but the whole story, with all its interesting connotations, the Beatles and Beach Boys tie-ins, Polanski, Tate..... Bobby Beausoleil, Kenneth Anger etc. etc.

Boring it ain't.

Now back to Midnight Mansion.

I thought it was a tribute to the Addams family  :D

aquaMat,


Quote:

it was Dennis, not Brian Wilson who

I stand corrected. I knew it was one of them (the Beach Boys). The Mansion (NOT MANSON) Family never even entered my mind until you brought it up. I was just thinking of Paul's words (FYI, we have the same birthday and are bass guitarists!):

When I get to the bottom
I go back to the top of the stack
And I stop and catch a ride to the bottom
And turn around and see you, yah, yah, yah

Or something to that effect, I apologize if I didn't get it EXACTLY but the thought of going up and down in a chaotic way is sort of what you need to do in HS. AND I also issue the same disclaimer about any MANSON tie-in. Just a game to design, play and share.

Joe B

Can I just remind everybody that Helter Skelter is generally still more recognizable as a Beatles song than anything else, regardless of any nasty side business? The name of the mansion should remind you all of happy tunes and good times! Happy tunes and good times!

HelterSkullter has now been put on the final mansions list.  Both the hard, original version and a somewhat easier version with one save point.

OK. finished HS easy but only with 66% secrets  :(

Must finish the hars version some day - if I only could learn not to play too quick  ::)

Thanks brell! Hey does Freddy do an "official" announcement like with the other posted mansions?

Joe B

Yes, he does as far as I have noticed.  We always end the uploading process with an announcement although we may forget it of course sometimes.

Psychotronic -

I think feelings about "Helter Skelter" depend on your age. Of course it was a great Beatle's song. Unfortnately for those of us alive during Charles Mansion & followers' horrific killing of a pregnant Sharon Tate, her unborn baby and her friends, Helter Skelter and The Manson Family- or a take off of their names -  will never be a good name for a game or evoke neutral feelings. "It depends on how you look at it."  

sherryl199 wrote on 14.03.2007 at 10:19:10:

Psychotronic - I think feelings about "Helter Skelter" depend on your age. Of course it was a great Beatle's song. Unfortnately for those of us alive during Charles Mansion & followers' horrific killing of a pregnant Sharon Tate, her unborn baby and her friends, Helter Skelter and The Manson Family- or a take off of their names -  will never be a good name for a game or evoke neutral feelings. "It depends on how you look at it."

...'Kay.

I do know the story, and Manson is the first thing I think of when anyone says "Helter Skelter". And pig farms are the first thing I think of when somebody says "Green River". But I don't think words should be off-limits because they become associated with some psycho. Without the media frenzy and the public fascination, these guys wouldn't have the power (and sometimes the motivation) that they do. I feel like it's basically a healthy thing to burn through the coat of awe surrounding their crimes and to simply use words the way they were intended. Holding murderers up as a mythical embodiment of evil does just as much to prolong their legacy as joking about them or studying them does. Arguably more. I don't think this has to do with age so much as world-view.

Here I go again........

The name had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CHARLES MANSON. I was going with the confusion definition. If you look at mansions by M&J you will see VERY symmetrical structures with very straight floors and lots of 90 degree angles. This was an exercise in non linear and random placement of platforms. As I was beginning to draw HS I happened to have the Beatles on. Normally I listen to a lot of classical, fusion rock and heavy metal. I wanted to get into a different mind set so I changed what I was listening to. Lo and behold just as I was starting to draw skeleton spiders on came Helter Skelter. Wow, karma talking to me, Helter SKULLTER!
So if anyone feels reluctant to play this mansion simple because of it's name then think of it as Hopping Skipping, or Hocus Scopus, or Hairy Scorpion, or Hot Skivvies, or Homey Sisters or yadayadayada. As someone recently remarked to me IT'S A GAME!
Enough already......
As I've stated before, we play mansions, we design mansions, if a question is asked and we have the answer we respond, if we don't we suggest alternates. If you get enjoyment out of our mansions by all means play them but if you choose not to play because of an unintended connotation that your minds eye has seen fit to tag our mansion with then don't play.
I apologize for the length of this post but this needs to stop now.

joeb

Question:

Just out of curiosity, why is all this negativity on my posts? I would think that The Mansion Family is a lot closer to Charles than Helter Skullter. Maybe there's another variable in play here.

:-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

joeb wrote on 14.03.2007 at 22:29:11:

Question: Just out of curiosity, why is all this negativity on my posts? I would think that The Mansion Family is a lot closer to Charles than Helter Skullter. Maybe there's another variable in play here. :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

I'm rather confused about that as well.

Too many cycles wasted. From now on I think it's going to be Hopping Skipping, the mansion formerly known as Helter Skullter.

8-)

jb

I don't understand that either...Joe. I thought I had made it clear about a week or so ago....for both of us, in a way...when I said that naming a mansion "The Mansion Family" (and that applies even more for your Helter Skullter) is based first and foremost on the great word-play, and does in no way imply any justification of Manson's crimes.

And I thought we had  already left that discussion behind.

I'm really not a friend of these "over-politically-correct" people.... ''cause what it ends with is, you can't say this, you can't make that joke etc...... and in the end we have the OPPOSITE of FREEDOM.
Speech control or something.....

Jesus, one day somebody tries to make Paul McCartney responsible for the Tate/LaBianca murders......because he dared writing a song that eventually ended up becoming Manson's faveourite song.  

Cool it.....folks.... as someone said.... this is just a game. If you don't like a certain mansion's name - don't play it.
Watch TV instead.... (where 10 people are killed per minute.)

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!

P.S.  Apart from that..... Joe, I think the fact that this discussion happened here and not in the MansionFamily thread is only by chance / coincidence.  
I really doubt there's more to it.

You know how easy people stray off topic on these boards.....

So now ....back to our topic: Helter Skullter

Yesterday I finally made it: I beat the mansion all the way thru....100% secrets !!

It's really a wonderful mansion, especially now that all the little problems of the earlier versions are ironed out !!

After I beat the "real" one, I played the easy version.....  Ohmygod, was that easy !!    :D ;D  (Should have played that first...!)

But:  I found one small error, I think.
In room 13897, somewhere in the upper right corner (but below that caveat with the shield and the key), Jack used to be able to walk through, coming from the right on the uppermost path....but now it's not possible anymore, as there is a brick blocking his head.

Fortunately, I managed to get through the room on a different path.... but only with a pretty dangerous leap.

So something must have happened there: in all earlier versions, and in the released hard version it IS possible to pass that spot.

A few other, final, notes on the released versions:

The save pedestal is of much help, although I feel it comes a little too early in the game. (But it's probably one of the only spots where there was enough space to put it up, I suppose).

I always found it irritating, and still do, that in order to get all secrets, you have to take ALL moving platforms thru the lava, even if it's not necessary for the completion of the game, as you can get to the lower spots with the levers on a much shorter amd more direct way!  So if you want all secrets, you have to keep going back up and take the platforms throu the lava / ceiling several times.  Here I feel, one secret (maybe for the first platform), would have been enough.

In all versions there is a "mistake" in room 14297, ca. center left, near the left grey door. Once this door has been opened, the skull spider walks to the left (and remains there). This is a bad space for it, as it often results in Jack having to sacrifice a life in order to get to (or back from) the leftmost lever. I'm sure the skullspider was meant to stay in the gap  right of the grey door, so the player could jump over it.

Apart from these last 3 points (sorry Joe) I think it's a wonderful, perfect mansion !!

Help! I'm confused.

I'm working from save point one, and have just gotten 3 red keys and have gone into the dark room where the lamp is on the right. There are lots of spiders and evil invisible ledges that keep killing me, I don't know what to do. Do I need to get back to the beginning of the game to use my 3 red keys? Am I being stupid in this room?

Help would be appreciated.

:).

Hi Lara,

You're on the right track. You're at the bottom of the room with the lantern, and you need to be careful in order to get it. But it is possible. Keep trying, and good luck.

Hey,

I'm not on the bottom left, more the middle left. I think I know how to get to the bottom left...

Anyone got any more explicit help?  :)

:'(

Lara, I just sent  you a PM with the answer.
8-)