Joe, what a nice surprise on a beautifiul spring morning !!!

I immediately played it (haven't finished yet, I always die to soon... ;)) and I'm very impressed... I love it, really....
espoecially those great bits of irritating perspective (tromp d'oeuil, I guess the Frenchmen call that).... and apart from a few layer-issues I think it's very well programmed ans should definitely warrant an official reölease !!

I comment on my time after I beaten it completely !!  :)


BTW: Judged by the name...it could be part of The Mansion Family   ;D :D

Trompe-l'oeil, it is called. It means trick-the-eye  :)

I look forward to playing it!

aquaMat,


Quote:

BTW: Judged by the name...it could be part of The Mansion Family

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You're right!!! Let me know what you think of the volcano. I forgot to mention that the scenario is that a volcano erupted near on of Jack's summer villa's and he went to check out the damage. I originally had the bricks red and blue, red where they passed over a lava flow or were on top of one but the colors became annoying and DIFFICULT to play with the background of the volcano so I switched to just blue. If you think it warrants it I'll clean it up and do an official release.

Glad you're enjoying it, and great Mansion Family tie in.

YUK, YUK, YUK, YUK............

Joe B

A very "nice" and hard mansion Joe  ;D

One day I might even finish it  ::)

But after one try I have noticed, as the good saying goes:

After all it is a question of not playing too fast!  Something I will propably never learn...

Yeah. This one really requires you to think before you leap. In the first few rooms, I was just charging right through and kept running headlong into spiders. It's a fun little mansion, though. I like the slow pace. It keeps me thinking about every step, and it makes a fairly small mansion seem larger.

Even with the original graphics and fewer intangible walls, though, I still feel like there's something not solid about it. I kept dying from not knowing exactly which platforms I could walk on. I think that's partly a beta-testing issue, though. A lot of vines and stuff still need tightening up. I got stuck on the bottom part of room 14099 (I think), with a bit near the left blocking my head, and no other way to get back up.

The graphics are a little chaotic, but that's part of the theme, isn't it? There's some nice rooms in there. It's a breath of fresh air after some madhouse maze of platforms and snakes to come into a nice big room full of dripping lava.

Anyway, it feels like a good second draft. Some spit and polish, and it can easily go on the big list.

joeb wrote on 07.03.2007 at 20:16:51:

...Let me know what you think of the volcano...

I wonder where you got a Volcano idea...  :P

Quote:

The graphics are a little chaotic, but that's part of the theme, isn't it?

BINGO! Helter Skullter.... Lots of little skulls, some spiders and snakes thrown in for spice. And of course some planning before proceeding.

This was the first mansion that I ever did that was under 25 rooms so it was quite an experiment to see if I could get a lot of adventure into a small space. Second whether I could limit critters (excuse me Wingy, MONSTERS) to just the "S's" and still have a challenging mansion. Third, could I break out of the linear mode of design. Finally, before I release my "real" mansions I usually do a beta test of some sort. There was very little of that with this mansion.

Well, like Meatloaf sang: "Two out of three ain't bad"

Somewhere down the road when this mansion gets the spit and polish treatment Mudville will have it's joy over not whiffing the third strike.

Thanks psychotronic!

Joe B

joeb wrote on 08.03.2007 at 04:06:12:

...BINGO! Helter Skullter.... Lots of little skulls, some spiders and snakes thrown in for spice...

I wonder where you got the Skull idea...  :P

;D

Quote:

I wonder where you got a Volcano idea...

Actually during beta testing of Dominator, someone (ryos or aquaMat I think) said in their notes, "Now THAT'S a volcano!" So I took another look at it because I wasn't happy with it myself and said how do I make it better? The volcano (and actually it's only one of the  outcroppings of the central cone) in HS was the result. Matt has a thing about lava and when he finally saw this mansion he went
"WOW Dad, now that's a volcano, yada, yada, yada, yada...............". But that's the only inspiration I had here. The upcoming M&J jungle mansion "Where be the Key Mon?" goes back to some of the scenes from TOTOMB, but with interesting new critters (MONSTERS). Inspiration is all around us guy.......

Joe B

Quote:

I wonder where you got the Skull idea...

The Mall has an entire "department" with nothing but bone based critters.

Let's not get TOO silly here.......

:-X :-X ;)

jb

Did you ever show little professor Matt my biggest mansion, [smiley=evil.gif] Volcanis? [smiley=evil.gif] Or Skeleton Mansion?
Only brave people enter there... :P ::)
[smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

It was sort of a recurring problem, and I only had time for one runthrough, so I don't remember. I can take another look at it, but maybe not till tomorrow. I'm at work now, and I've got a stand-up comedy open mic to prepare for tonight.

I do remember some frustration with the tower room in the upper left. It's the one with a lot of foreground tiles and spiders that are only visible through the broken cracks in the pillars, and there's two columns of coins leading to the top of the tower. I somehow couldn't figure out what the right path was to get to the top or get all the coins or get back down again. The whole thing just didn't work for me. I got stuck at the top of the vine on the left where I couldn't see anything, and I fell through gaps to my death three or four times. I'll send you my video of the first ruthrough. That will probably explain better than my failing memory could. I should just get into the practice of attaching those things with my first impressions every time.

I tried to make the tower one of those once you figure it out it's easy type rooms (which by the way it is). I guess I need to offer a few more clues by opening up a few more foreground tiles.
The movie would help a lot and keep in mind that I don't need immediate responses about stuff although sometimes I inadvertently project that.
Stand up open mike comedy, now THAT I'd like a movie of!!!

Knock em dead or break a leg! I think that wishing you good luck is a no-no in show business so I'll stay away from that.


Joe B

I really don't know what the superstitions are for comedy, but thanks!

Here's the movie. May it serve you well.

---

Hrmmm... I think I'm smarter then this 'ol scallywag about this forums... (but not about anything els!) You should replace the first post with the newer version and say in the post you said here that there's a new one!  ::)

Haven't finished it yet. Now that there's a new version, gotta start over again!  :(

Yeah, it does get kind of confusing but I did notice that the forum software automagically adds a numeric suffix to postings. So at this point HelterSkullter_003 is the latest version. Psychotronic did mention that this mansion might qualify to be posted as a "real" mansion. Didn't think little guys like this (22 rooms) qualified. This was more of an experiment to see how much quality I could pack into a small space. In Search For Jack I have several areas which all have different scenarios but due to the limitation on size (I'm pretty sure Vern said 80 would be the top size) its tough to get a good experience in 20 rooms. HS was a test of that. I'm sure 2 of the sections will be very cool to play. One of them may have falling SNOW if I can get it figured out for slow machines. So I better not see SNOW in any of your mansions because it's MY idea!

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just kidding of course!


later

Joe B

joeb wrote on 08.03.2007 at 22:02:06:

Didn't think little guys like this (22 rooms) qualified.

Well, we have a few one room mansions on the final list.  And I agree with Psychotronic.  HS should get on the final list.

brell,

That's cool, if you think HS qualifies. I'd still like to see what issues there are before we move it as it has only had limited testing. I won't do any further modifications other than JS fixes. I really like the difficulty level and don't want to make it easier anywhere. I think it's good where it's at as a hard mansion. What do you, or anyone else for that matter, think?

Joe B

Oh, and to preserve my reputation I have to report a Jack-Stuck (though it was in the first version, I haven't played the new ones - just writing this while I remember).

At some point I opened a wrong blue door (the second one you meet) and ended up going all my way back up until I was stuck between a yellow and three red ones, with no keys. I grant you I could have avoided jumping right in between these doors, but I don't know how stuck I would have been anyway.

Psychotronic wrote on 08.03.2007 at 07:15:51:

It was sort of a recurring problem, and I only had time for one runthrough, so I don't remember. I can take another look at it, but maybe not till tomorrow. I'm at work now, and I've got a stand-up comedy open mic to prepare for tonight. I do remember some frustration with the tower room in the upper left. It's the one with a lot of foreground tiles and spiders that are only visible through the broken cracks in the pillars, and there's two columns of coins leading to the top of the tower. I somehow couldn't figure out what the right path was to get to the top or get all the coins or get back down again. The whole thing just didn't work for me. I got stuck at the top of the vine on the left where I couldn't see anything, and I fell through gaps to my death three or four times. I'll send you my video of the first ruthrough. That will probably explain better than my failing memory could. I should just get into the practice of attaching those things with my first impressions every time.

Strangely I had figured out this room pretty fast...I don't know if it was luck or instinct, though.  But strange that you, of all people, Psychotronic, had problems with this room....it reminded me so much of your Observatory...with all those layer-6 walls etc.

I had trouble too. Even now I'm not sure I did find out its secret actually. Well, I still manage to go through now (without even losing a Jack)  :D

joeb wrote on 08.03.2007 at 23:07:29:

brell, That's cool, if you think HS qualifies. I'd still like to see what issues there are before we move it as it has only had limited testing. I won't do any further modifications other than JS fixes. I really like the difficulty level and don't want to make it easier anywhere. I think it's good where it's at as a hard mansion. What do you, or anyone else for that matter, think? Joe B

Of course hard mansions qualify for the final list as well as others.  I think you should have one or two beta (or is it gamma at this stage?) testers to check out possible JS and cd (cheap deaths) leftovers and then send it to me or Freddy for the list of complete mansions.

I am stuck in 14297. I am downstairs; one lever opens a grey door and the other one does nothing. Then I cannot get up anymore, nor from the room to the right. Am I missing something?

OK all,

Has anyone completed the mansion yet?

If not then I will give the following ambiguous clues:

Seek and ye shall find the red keys !

All that glitters is not gold and all that appears hot may not be !

HEE HEE HEE

:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Joe B

aquaMat wrote on 09.03.2007 at 00:09:27:

Strangely I had figured out this room pretty fast...I don't know if it was luck or instinct, though.  But strange that you, of all people, Psychotronic, had problems with this room....it reminded me so much of your Observatory...with all those layer-6 walls etc.

To be perfectly honest, after playing a lot of other mansions with layer six walls, I probably wouldn't have done the Observatory that way. I don't even enjoy playing through the layer-six part myself now. Temple of the Moon is the only mansion I've seen use the concept really well.

Hmmmmmm.......

Curious, why don't you like playing 6th layer mansions?
The 6th layer at the tower was a last minute thing. I'm not a big fan myself but I'd seen it in a lot of other mansions so I try to include it at least once in my mansions.

Joe B

The lever is better now, but I still cannot go up again. I checked the wall, had a few leaps of faith and climbed inexistent ladders, to no avail :-?

Oh, have you fixed the other Jack-Stuck by the way?

And I agree that the layer 6 part is better now.

I am not stuck anymore (there was a 4-bricks jumps which was changed in a 3-bricks jump). Your comment is very mysterious: a good teaser to go on and see if I find out what it means!  :D

And here was a nice experience: getting stuck in a room, then suspending the game and restarting it with the modified mansion file - and you can get unstuck! It gives sort of a surreal feel to the game. As if Jack called some friend for help, and the friend arrived and gave him a lift  :)

So far it is quite a stunning mansion I'd say. Indeed getting through is a matter of being careful and thinking your steps ahead instead of dashing around, and as Joe said: a lot of punch in a small mansion! Makes it look bigger, and you don't get so frustrated if you lose and you have to start over.

joeb wrote on 09.03.2007 at 04:18:30:

Hmmmmmm....... Curious, why don't you like playing 6th layer mansions? The 6th layer at the tower was a last minute thing. I'm not a big fan myself but I'd seen it in a lot of other mansions so I try to include it at least once in my mansions. Joe B

At least once  ???    :-?
Joe.... as far as I remember your The Money Pit used quite a bit of layer-6 stuff... at least I remember dying a lot of unexpected deaths there, due to craetures behind walls, gaps in the floor covered by walls etc....  but it's still one of my top ten faves !!

Or wasn't that yours ??

I played version 004 now (as far as I got....  8-)).

First of all:  I understand some people didn't like it...but I liked the tower with more layer-6 tiles better.... now it's almost easy  ;D

Now to the problems (some of them might have been reported already):

Room 14298 >14299
Unnecessary sudden death due to height difference (top floor) (unaligned floor in 14299)

Room 14297
Upper right corner:  walking through is NOT possible (from left to right) due to a brick edge...so what's the point of opening the grey door??

Room 14299
Here I'm stuck...with nowhere else to go (except the dark room at the right....which I can't get thru alive)

Room 14098
I suspect there's an error in the middle "floor", where a moving platform is NOT activated by the lever (in the upper right corner)...probably the platform is accidentially marked "moving to start"...I don't know ?!  If it's a "trap", built on purpose....it's bad, as you cannot go back all the way to un-pull the lever !!

The fact that this platform is not working results in not being able to open the grey door in the lower right corner, which results in not being able to pull the lever behind it).

BTW: If this is the part you're hinting at with your Beatles lyrics citation....I'm not sure if this is manageable (getting back to the top I mean).

Also in room 14298:
Danger:  the fact that the platforms go up to the ceiling (with no "ceiling" there) results in the old game-quit bug !!

So....even if I managed (for the first time) to get as far as the section around room 14298 with 10 lives intact (hurrah!!), I had nowhere to go from there....  
And I have to admit, while I believe the first part of Helter Skullter is fantastic, really great....I think at this section it gets a bit "too weird"... the player is left completely in the rain, without knowing what direcxtion he'd be heading and not even a hint where to continue !

Quote:

At least once  ???     Joe.... as far as I remember your The Money Pit used quite a bit of layer-6 stuff... at least I remember dying a lot of unexpected deaths there, due to craetures behind walls, gaps in the floor covered by walls etc....  but it's still one of my top ten faves !! Or wasn't that yours ??

Yup, that was a Matt and Joe AND "quite a bit..." could be interpreted as "at least once" couldn't it?
I know I'm being a smart alec here.

14297 - Right you are, fixed and there is a "minor" reason.

14299 - Hmmm. Maybe not thru.......... There's 2 OTHER directions in the dark room. Try one of those and BIG HINT: 14299 is key to solving the mansion

14098 - Whoops. I was checking to make sure the lower 2 floors worked and forgot to turn off "moving to start". And YES you can go back to pull the lever. I leave it to you to figure out how or as Shelock used to say you have everything you need to solve the case.

14298 - You shouldn't be seeing that! I don't!

In going thru the logic here at work I DID find something that I have to ask Vern about. I found a way around it so I'm getting the behavior I want. I've also added a couple of more VISUAL hints so there is no singing in the rain. Just remember this, there is a way to get "back to the top of the stack". Unfortunately I won't be able to post the fix that I mentioned until I get home in around 7 hours. At work I can't put my Mac on the network.

Thanks for your patience too!!!!!

Joe B

Wow, Joe.... that was super-fast !!
Thanks a lot.... will play immediately...!! :)

Sorry for the ambiguity of my emails but it took me a while to come up with some of the little puzzles that I have in HS but I'm hoping to give everyone the same sort of feeling I got when I was playing This Old Mansion and figured out some of the puzzles, you know the "YEAHHHhhhhh...." feeling. I appreciate the comments I've received back and am glad that it's supplied some enjoyment.
Still looking for the person who's going to make it all the way through, besides me of course.
Now for another question:

What's everyone's feelings on REAL mazes like the one in Mummy's Revenge? I'm contemplating adding one to Search For Jack  (actually I already have the structure done). It's relatively small only 9 rooms but it does have the punch of HS (IMNSHO) and some really awesome graphics but no critters.

Thanks,

Joe B

I like mazes so go for it!

Regarding HS:  When it enters the final list, would you find it in your heart to make 2 versions:  One as it is and one slightly easier with a saving point for lesser players like me?

Actually I was thinking 2 save points and I guess I could go easier.
I'll look at it over the weekend.

Joe B

Almost did it... Had 3 red keys and one blue; I would have managed if I hadn't lost about 10 lives in that dark room...

Did you know that falling platforms don't fall normally in the dark, but just "vanish"? Until they glow, that is (then, they behave normally)  ;)

There's a room in ACO that uses that strange falling platform behavior. It's hard to get through the room at first, but as you jump on the falling platforms, they appear in the dark, until the entire path to the exit is revealed. Very strange.

But do NOT leave the room. Or they are gone again!!

There, done! Well, almost done: I wonder where I left these last 34% :-?.

Btw: I think you don't really need the red keys (Maybe this answers my previous question ;))

In room 14297, one skull-spider goes through a brick and ends up sitting on some coins... Is this a deliberate trap?

And I believe you still can get stuck between red and yellow without matching keys.

---

Joe,
after playing your version 005 I discovered a potential JS in room 14298.  Somehow I took a different path this time, than when I last played... and I ended up in the middle caveat with the lever & money bag, BEFORE I had pulled the lever in the lower left corner.

Which results in a Jack-stuck... as the platforms are not yet moving...so you can't get back up again !!
Only voluntary suicide was left as an option.... and although it worked (I was reborn on the upper floor)... I don't think that's particularily nice.

Besides: the game-quit bug in this same room still happens (when Jack rides on a platform until the ceiling).
Strange that you are not seeing it.....

Oh, I wish I could finish this mansion.....  but I never survive the dark room. (I know the way to go is UP....but then what...I still die!)

PS

@brell

yes I am working on an easy version

jb

Joe,
I think you made just the right decisions on what changes to make..... sounds much better now...while still having the same degree of thrill and "danger" that made it good in the first place !!

BTW, that's what I liked most about this mansion.... that you have all those little jumps to make, and have to be absolutely on your toes all the time...  I remember I once played it, a couple of days ago, when I was already very tired.... and I died a thoudand deaths even in places I could pass easily during earlier attempts.  

Stuff like this keeps the "replay value" of a mansion high !!

joeb wrote on 10.03.2007 at 17:57:07:

PS @brell yes I am working on an easy version jb

I just asked for one saving point for us lesser players  ;)

joeb wrote on 10.03.2007 at 17:53:06:

I still haven't seen a post where someone has.

Ahem...

Did you see Reply #44? Which, I have to point out, was before arrival of the Lantern.

Toybox,

My APOLOGIES!

I didn't see your post. I usually just skip to the last post.

Congratulations on being the first. Now the big question......

Thoughts????

Joe B

PS I am off for some tournaments today. Knocking over groups of wood with a heavy ball (bowling) and won't be back until later this afternoon ~9 hours from now.

later all,

joeb

Ah, the last post on the page tends to be overlooked ;)

As for my thoughts... I believe this is one of my favourite mansions.

I couldn't judge about Jack-Stucks (except the one I pointed out, but which I grant you involves Jack actively trying to get stuck: you see you don't have the keys and still you jump between the doors). I agree with what had been said before - great replay value, also because it is not so frustrating to replay the whole mansion if you messed up your way the first time. Because of the small size, you can easily make use of the knowledge you get when you play and lose (like, opening the wrong blue door, or tricking the giant spider - it got me twice, but finally I learned how to deal with it) without getting frustrated. Not sure I would have found my way to the bottom part of the Dark room without your hint though  ;)

I liked the puzzles and tricks. You implemented very nicely the principle that the more you rush, the more likely you are to make a fatal mistake.

As for the passage from the dark room to upstairs: once you are upstairs for the first time, I think there are ways to fall through the floor if you just walk to your left or jump clumsily (I don't remember); also, if the moving platform is already moving, you will arrive on non-solid ground (so you need a ladder jump not to fall back to the dark room).

(Did all this make sense now?)

One point I like to add:
Someone here (brell) has remarked earlier: a saving point just before that hard area (14297/14298) would be extremly helpful...!

I can only second that emotion !!

As much fun it is to replay this mansion...after the 10th time it gets a bit frustrating !!

So what do you think, Joe.

As brell said, this would be enough to make it into a somewhat "easier" version. (You could still leave the original version, as the hard one !)

Finally finished this one. A lot of fun, but it really got frustrating without a save point, to have to go through the beginning part so many times. Jack died a gazillion deaths before I finally made it. Only 75% secrets, though.
:-/

Great mansion, though.

---

Joe.... is it possible that there is a mistake in version 006 ??

As opposed to earlier versions in the dark room once Jaclk has stepped on the floor-switch to open the door that lets the skull-spiders thru....that door now remmains open, even when Jack re-enters the room.

In earlier versions you could walk out of the room and re-enter and the door was closed again. (Made more sense to me !!)

The way it is now.... I had not been able to get to the lantern before all those skull mothers were eating me alive !!

Phew:   and all that after I re-played the beginning yet another time....  :( ::)   ;)

@aquaMat

There is another way to the lantern.
8-)

Ohhh....really ??

Guess I'll have to try one more time ?!  ;)

Can you please edit and delete you other attachments to avoid confusment? :-?

hey,

Great Mansion!

But, in room 14296 are too many queues! If one does not go upward is it a problem, but if one wants downward must one a queue broken-makes around further to come   :(

Pls fixed this.

A bit better. Got one more secret, too :)

A few questions or remarks:

1. What is the use of the trap door in 14099?  :-?
2. You still don't need the red keys to get through (and you can get those gold coins in 13901 by jumping from below). I opened them anyway, just in case there was some nifty secret, but usually I just take the lower path.
3. Room 14297: after opening the lower grey door, the skull-spider goes and sits on the money. Is this intentional? You certainly give out enough shields to trade it for 50$, but...
4. In room 14097 you can get all coins and the blue key without having to pass through the room on the left. I think you should move up slightly the key to put it just out of reach of any astute jump.
5. I liked very much the Exit Door Trap ;D

---

Chippy wrote on 11.03.2007 at 18:46:45:

But, in room 14296 are too many queues! If one does not go upward is it a problem, but if one wants downward must one a queue broken-makes around further to come   :(

Mikee, ich glaube Du meinst "snakes" (oder auch "serpent", wenn Du willst). Das Wort "queue" ist die Schlange am Schalter oder an der Kasse.

------------

And it *is* possible to go up and down without harming a single snake. Usually I don't manage though  ::)

lol denn halt snakes! ;)

[smiley=lolk.gif]

Ok dann ist ncihts mehr an dem Mansion was ich dazu zu sagen habe.

Hey guys,


English is my first and only language for communicating with the world. If you're trying to tell me about an issue it needs to be in english (or basic, pascal, fortran, ada, c, c++, sql, php, etc.) or I have to issue a resounding HUH!?!?!?!?!?!?

Thanks,

Joe B

Now try to get between the red and gold doors!!!!!


joeb

---

Quote:

But, in room 14296 are too many queues! If one does not go upward is it a problem, but if one wants downward must one a queue broken-makes around further to come

HUH??


If you are talking about the platforms that go up and down on the right side of the room here is the secret:
Get on the first platform and wait until the platforms are going down from the platform you're on.
Walk down to the platform next to the platform with the snake.
When the snake platform is about to hit the bottom jump over the snake. What that does is puts you 2 blocks over the snake and by the time you've gone over the snake the block on the other side of the snake is moving up and you're never on the same level as the snake. I've never lost a life to a snake that way. Always remember that the key to beating this mansion is to have patience and wait for the right time to make your move.

HTH,

Joe B

joeb wrote on 12.03.2007 at 00:46:15:

...HUH??...

Mikee's doing great with his English! So what if its hard to understand sometimes. Too bad there isn't a traslator for Mikese...  :-[ ;)

Wingy,

You want the job? I'm TERRIBLE with languages!

Joe B

You mean you don't know good english?  :-?

No just the American slang dialect and of course techno-speak.

joeb

What's "techno speech?"  :-?

Example of techno speak:

Based on your latest email it looks like we may have some scope creep with PRJ0648. The DB2 instances don't appear to be using the optimizer correctly and are creating fragmental threads that are confusing the scheduler. You may want to create some fake index key logic to fool the optimizer into forcing partial index scans instead of full table scans. You may also want to look at the join logic and see if you can change any of the predicate qualifiers to indexed table joins. Although this is outside the parameters in the design document I don't see how we can not handle the table locks created by this issue any other way except maybe by creating materialized query tables. But that will require almost an entire rewrite plus requests for temporary tablespace. I realize this means a comprehensive modification of the design doc but to assign the needed man hours it must be done this way to allow scheduling and assignment of resources thru TeamTrack.

end techno speak

My day and welcome to it......

:-[ :P :-/ :-/ :'( :P >:( :( :-[ :-[

joeb

You're just menioning geek-ish stuff... I don't think thats that "techno."