Thanks to a reminder by Vern AND to aquaMat's recent work at Discotheque of Doom, I am pretty sure that almost all custom mansions in future will be playable without any files-swopping.

The following 2 mansions will be updated by the admins to prove that it is really possible: Immortal Ruins and Discotheque of Doom.

Two other mansions can be done fast as well, but first need to be beta-tested and fixed in a serious way. From one of them, I already received an update to do some aplha-testing. No beta yet, I am afraid.

For the few designers who also used customized graphics, sounds and/or sprites (Wingy and joeb) I advise to contact aquaMat. Not only to know how he handled his sprites and graphics, but also why and which problems he got. And IF Wingy's 3 and joeb's 2 mansions could be changed like DoD, than ALL CUSTOM MANSIONS SHOULD BE FREE OF FILES-SWOPPING.

What a comfort would that be!   :) :) :)

Amen to that. File swapping gets pretty tiresome.
That would be really great.

HUH?

Where's the start of this thread? I have absolutely no idea what this is about but since I being asked to fix something I'd kind of like to know what it is I'm fixing.

Thanks guys,

Joe B

You didn't miss anything joeb!

But I was going to make this introduction-post with the "good news", followed by the updates of IR and DoD. And emails to Wingy and you. Alas, this afternoon something came in between and the post stayed isolated and was probably confusing.

What is going on ... ? Two seperate things! But that hopefully will lead to one target: the end of files-swopping. I explain. More clearly now.

1° When I did send an email to Vern a few days ago, with an idea about a better handling of music- and screenfiles, he replied me that already in MM 1.0.8 he added a feature to make things even more easy than what I was asking for right now. I am to blame that I missed that issue, but the good news is that we, admins, don't need any help of all the seperate designers to make the needed updates. The update of Immortal Ruins will show how it is possible, after downloading a mansion, to drag ONLY ONCE the mansionfile and the datafolder to the Custom Mansions folder. And afterwards no more files-swopping. So far the story about screens and music.

2° This second part is about graphics, sprites and sounds. And a coincidence! A few weeks ago aquaMat reported me that, since version 1.0.9, his Discotheque of Doom couldn't be played any more in a proper way. He sent me images of indeed awful looking rooms with white areas and other odd stuff. He assumed that it had to do with the new feature of "built-in" graphics and sprites that are possible since 1.0.9, while DoD was build before. He very surprisingly came with an update where all his graphics and sprites were built-in. Thus, since the last update od DoD (version 2.1) the graphics- and sprites-files don't need to be swopped any more. I know he put a lot of time and energy in it, but I am sure he will share his experiences with the 2 other designers, Wingy and joeb, who worked with customized graphics, sprites and sounds as well. Now, and here comes the coincidence, if Wingy and joeb, because of problems with some of their mansions (since 1.0.9) or not, would be so nice to built-in their graphics, sprites (and hopefully also sounds) as well, than files-swopping will be the Paleolithicum!!

My next steps are:
1° creating updates for IR and DoD;
2° sending emails to Wingy and joeb.

Thanks Freddy.


I don't know why aquaMat had an issue with custom graphics. I just put them into the mansion file and they work fine. No swapping needed! I need to find (unless you know where it is) the doc from Vern about the custom backgrounds.
If I remember correctly the background screens need to be put into a Screens folder. That folder and the custom mansion file need to be in their own folder inside the Custom Mansions folder in the MM folder structure.
For instance the mansion I'm about to release, which Matt has named Radeka (don't ask me why the name), the setup would be:

Custom Mansions -> Radeka (folder)
Radeka (folder) -> Radeka (mansion file)
Radeka (folder) -> Screens (folder)
Screens (folder) -> background7.jpg, background8.jpg, etc.

Is that right? Also FYI I think you mean file SWAPPING.   ;)

Speaking of Radeka, who do I send it to for testing?

Thanks,

Matt & Joe B

@ joeb: Speaking of a superfast reply! Thx.

I don't think that aquaMat had problems with building in his graphics and sprites. But BEFORE doing that, playing his mansion with 1.0.9 showed odd features that he couldn't fix in an easy way. He may tell you everything about it, but he is on holiday for the time being. Lucky guy!

Concerning the backgrounds (= screens), don't worry. That is our stuff. Besides e.g. the Radeka mansionfile, we make a Radeka Data folder with both the screens and the music. Both file and folder need to be dragged to the Custom Mansion folder for once and for ever. Sounds nice, isn't it!

Please send your updated mansions to me. But, unless you changed things in it, no screens or music. All those files I have. Please have a look at my question about the secrets as well. See my email from the 8th of December. Thx.

The updates of IR and DoD are already downloadable.

email or PM? I don't see anything in my email from you. You might have gotten filtered out though. I've been getting like 90% spam so I keep adding filters and it might have caught a word in your email that was on my restricted list. I'll just add you to my email pass addresses rule.
Sorry about that.
Radeka was a 60 room mansion that would have been my contest mansion. It has since expanded to ~100 rooms and is by far the most difficult Matt & I have created. His original name for it was Sneaky Chateau because of all the little visual hooks. We've created a swamp brick that Jack can move thru but he's 80% hidden. There are also slime snakes which blend in with the swamp brick and can only be recognized by their bright yellow eyes when they're swimming. Some of the traps might be considered "CHEAP DEATHS" but I don't consider them so because if you watch for things (like web strands) you'll know that there is a critter (web strands = spider) in hiding. Should be to you in about a week (or sooner)

Thanks,

Matt & Joe B

Here's a swamp shot with one of the snakes sittin on a platform and 4 more swimming in the muck

jb

ps that's a custom bg that you don't have yet.

---

joeb wrote on 29.12.2007 at 07:14:08:

email or PM? ...

Email. Sent it again, a few minutes ago. Please give a yell if it shouldn't arrive. Thx.

joeb wrote on 29.12.2007 at 07:20:47:

Here's a swamp shot with one of the snakes sittin on a platform and 4 more swimming in the muck jb ps that's a custom bg that you don't have yet.

Superb. The snakes are almost invisible! :o

And of course, when a designer created new music or screens, those files need to be sent as well.

I'm getting confused with the file-swopping thingie. So now I have to ask:

1) If I have a mansion with only custom background or music (ie. not the sprites), for example 'Church':

Is it enough to put the extra screens and music in a 'Church Data' folder inside the CM folder and just play without worrying about anything else?

Do screens and music have to go into separate subfolders of 'Church Data'?

2) If sprites too are custom-made, as in 'Starcraft' for example: does it work the same way?

:-?

Well, what I was up to, was preparing the 9 custom mansions for all our MMF-members and -guests, where not-standard music, screens, graphics, sprites and/or sounds are involved. So far, only 2 got "done". See upper left corner of our homepage.

As I tried to explain in a previous post, there is a major difference between:
1° sprites, sounds & graphics;
and:
2° screens & music.

When items from point 1 are involved, you really need to wait. As soon as I receive the updates of those mansions of the designers, they will get released.

When only music and/or screens are involved (and you can't wait  ;)) you need to create a folder with exactly the same name of the mansion + Data. In your example: Church Data. In that folder you put all screens and music files. You place that folder besides the mansionfile in the Custom Mansions folder. And when you start playing Church, the game automatically finds the needed files in the Church Data folder!

I had understood correctly then [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Let's make the folder changes now.

The reason that the other 7 mansions are coming a little bit later is because of other issues. E.g. sam skelton is right now busy with the fixings in Church.

If memory serves (and I think it does ;)), this is how things have worked since 1.0.8:

1) Tiles and sprites can be placed in the mansion file and will be loaded by the game.
2) Screens and music need to be placed in a folder named "[Mansion Name] Data" and will be loaded by the game. The mansion is not placed in this folder, and both the mansion file and the folder are placed in the root of the "Custom Mansions" folder.
3) The game will not load custom sounds. So, if you want to change the sounds you still need file swapping. I'm pretty sure "Dominator" is the only mansion that has changed the sounds. In that case, Decorum is your friend.

I've been a little confused about the new mansions that have come out with instructions on how to swap the files in by hand, when it's not longer necessary. I had no idea that people just didn't know about these things, since (I thought) they were pretty well-documented. Anyway, kudos for this new effort.

ryos wrote on 06.01.2008 at 10:02:48:

... I've been a little confused about the new mansions that have come out with instructions on how to swap the files in by hand, when it's not longer necessary. ...

Guilty as charged!  :-[ :( >:( ;)

This feature might be around longer than we have noticed, however there are still many custom graphic mansions out there that have not yet been updated accordingly.
Dominator, Mummy's Revenge, Star Craft, Testing Mansion and Church are the ones I remember now, but there could be more.....!

I'm sure there are other users out there, like myself, who would like to play - say - Dominator again, and would do so much more spontaneously if the mansion could be played without the need of file-swopping.
So it's only a small step for the designer, to misquote Neil Armstrong, but a huge leap for MM-ankind..... to make these mansions work with the new feature.  ;)

aquaMat wrote on 24.01.2008 at 20:52:34:

I'm sure there are other users out there, like myself, who would like to play - say - Dominator again, and would do so much more spontaneously if the mansion could be played without the need of file-swopping.

I've been playing Dominator since the betas without manual swapping, via Decorum. Decorum's been available for quite some time (almost a year, right?), and is so much nicer than swapping by hand that I'm frankly a little bemused when people who don't use it complain about what a pain it is to swap files by hand.

I'm just saying. 8-)


Quote:

So it's only a small step for the designer, to misquote Neil Armstrong, but a huge leap for MM-ankind..... to make these mansions work with the new feature.  ;)

While I agree that it would be nice if designers did this, I also recognize that there's nothing stopping anyone from doing it themselves. It really isn't that hard...just a copy/paste job with a resource editor, right?

However, it's worth noting that Dominator will never be swapping-free, due to the fact that MM does not load custom sounds and (if Vern is to be believed) never will. :(

EDIT: I decided Joeb probably wouldn't mind if I posted Dominator (and Chase the Bots) here, wrapped in Decorum. So, here you go. Have fun. ;)

---

Ryos,

I know that you developed and use Decorum for that purpose, but - although I downloaded it back then - I never got to grips with it.

Apart from that.... the new "process"/method would be even simpler than Decorum.

And as for your second point: I agree that users could do it themselves, and, frankly, I did in a few instances. But not only would it be better if the designers did it "officially", there also are a few more "complicated" custom graphics mansions out there, that require a bit of fine-tuning before the new method can be applied.

That was the case with Discotheque Of Doom, I had to change/adapt a couple of things, including BBB backgrounds and texts and more....and that would have been clearly beyond the scope of the "normal user".

Besides I wouldn't want all the users to mess with my mansions, resulting in X differently adapted versions. Then I rather make the effort to invest an hour or two of work and adapt it myself.

Lastly, as for "Chase The Bots", which was my creation based on the Dominator graphics, I had thought about adapting that....but I found it'd make more sense to let Joe release an adapted Dominator first.

Interesting. Out of curiosity, what sorts of issues did you encounter getting DoD ported over?

I'm also interested to know what factors kept you from "coming to grips", as you put it, with Decorum. Not that I'm likely to improve it (as you correctly note, it's pretty much unnecessary as of MM 1.0.8), but I like to hear constructive criticism on my work in the hope that things I do in the future turn out better. :)

As for my "just do it yourself" quip...I think I have to apologize. It's my kneejerk reaction to complaining on Internet message boards--there's so many people pining for others to do things for them that they could do for themselves that I tend to get a little grumpy about it. I do agree that it would be nice if developers adapted their mansions, and didn't realize the greater issues facing such efforts, but I'm also the type to try and fix things that annoy me before asking someone else to do it for me.

So, I'm sorry I said anything. ;)

Oh, and sorry also for not giving credit for "Chase the Bots". I'd forgotten it was you who made that. I'll say it a third time - a "converted" version of Dominator is impossible due to the custom sounds. It remains the only graphic set for which something like Decorum is absolutely necessary if you want to avoid swapping by hand.

I tried to install Decorum (and even the ready-made Play Dominator) but didn't manage. Here comes a (possibly nebulous) account:

1) The ready-made file.

I tried to launch it, but got several Error messages (I can't remember which ones, but I'll check that after I put my laundry to dry). Apparently, files were not all in the place they should have been.

Honestly, I didn't try to look further into the matter. It was late and I was tired anyway. Most probably, if I tried to read *and to understand* the messages, I could end up putting the right files in the right places and Bob's your uncle.

2) Decorum.

Well, I read the instructions but didn't quite understand what I was supposed to do, then I gave up.

Again, I must point out that it was a quick read. Most terms and notions were unfamiliar to me, so that again I didn't put too much effort into understanding the procedure - and if you don't try to understand something you're not familiar with, you can imagine the result.

I will however, definitely get back to it and try to see what I should do. It shouldn't be so hard, especially since you really took the trouble for a step-by-step procedure to follow! Besides, that's how we learn, isn't it? (Just promise me I won't do anything irreparable if things go wrong  ;))

[smiley=beer.gif]

OK, to summarise things: the reasons why I didn't manage are, on the one hand unexpected errors and not in the right state to try and fix them; on the other hand some unfamiliar procedures which I was a bit scared and too lazy to attempt to follow.

In any case, I'll go back to it during the week-end and keep you posted.

EDIT: launching Play Dominator gives me the following message:

"AppleScript Error

Finder got an error: An item with the same name already exists in the destination. (-15267)"

@ryos:

1. The issues I encountered while porting DoD:
A) Since I used special BBB-backgrounds in DoD (featuring a cute 1970s-type DoD-logo plus graphic) I had to somehow incorprate those into the new version of the game. You might remember that BBB-procedures have changed (since 1.0.8 I guess), so now it's possible to type the BBB-text directly into the BBB in the editor, whereas at the time of DoD's initial release you still had to use a res editor.
The problem: The dowwnside of that is, that I had to find a new solution for the BBB-backgrounds, which used to be in the extra supplied "MM graphics" file (in the old versions).

B) Another problem was my use of a custom switch. Suddenly all floor switches (not only the custom one) had white squares around them (see resp. thread with screenshot about that topic). I found out that - somewhere between the last 2 updates - Vern had apparently changed the "design method" for floor switches. Where they once used white background (which later appeared transparent) they now use that purpleish/blueish-colored background that is also used for other transparent backgrounds (e.g. ladders).
After I had changed my one custom floor switch, the white squares around ALL floor switches vanished too, bizarrely.

These are just 2 major examples, there was more....
As you see, it isn't always as straightforward as simply naming a folder XXX-mansion Data and throwing that ino the Custom Mansions folder.

I strongly recommend all designers that have used custom graphics in mansions that were designed with MM versions 1.0.7 or earlier to check if they still play as they should. Take a special look at those floor switches, BBB-texts etc.

BTW: I just played "House Of The Dead" again (it's so full of faults...I was sshocked) and there - amongst loads of other issues I also saw non-working BBBs (empty text-fields were displayed).
Although - given the general state of this mansion - it can very well be that this has nothing to do with "versions".... maybe the designer simply included a BBB without text ?!

2. My problems with Decorum were basically the same as those described by Toybox, although I haven't yet tried your new "packed" Dominator version. But I remember from when you released it, that I had problems to get it to work properly.
Like Toybox I admit I haven't been patient enough to try it longer or again......

....Aah...and of course you are absolutely right with your comments about the custom sounds in Dominator !!
I had completely forgotten that this mansion has custom sound FX.

@Toybox: Just launching the app gave you that error? If so, what version of Mac OS X are you running? I've not seen that.

Or did it happen when you clicked the "Play" button? If so, do you, by any chance, already have Dominator in your Custom Mansions folder? On my machine, this causes the error you're seeing when the "Play" button is clicked. Move BOTH Chase the Bots AND Dominator out of your Custom Mansions folder and it should work. (Decorum has a copy of the mansions inside its application bundle, and will move them into your Custom Mansions folder when you press "Play". If they're already there, you get an error.)

As for the rest...well...yeah, you do have to learn how to set it up, and I recognize that this isn't ideal. The whole thing is geared towards mansion developers packaging their mansions inside Decorum and distributing them that way, so the process is not as user-friendly as it would be if I expected "normal" users to do it. The program itself is dead simple to use, but there's that barrier to entry of learning to set it up.

What follows is a long account of how Decorum came to be and why it is as it is. Read on if you're curious.

Decorum actually began life as "Custom Asset Enabler", a program designed to enable developers of scenarios for Ambrosia Software's SketchFighter 4000 Alpha to use their own graphics. I wrote it then because SketchFighter's data files live inside the application's bundle, and the procedure for swapping them out is considerably more involved than it is for Midnight mansion. In fact, it's so onerous that it would be completely unreasonable to expect people to do it.

Unlike with MM, SketchFighter maps with custom assets would be pretty much untenable without a utility that performed the swapping for you, every time you wanted to play. This is where the developer-oriented mindset comes from; I knew that, in that case, mapmakers would need the utility to even consider making maps with custom graphics.

When I began beta testing Dominator for Joeb, I found the file swapping to be quite a headache. I soon realized that I had already solved the problem when I created the Custom Asset Enabler. The program's code only required a few simple changes in order to work with Midnight Mansion. And so Decorum was born.

However, the user/developer landscape was quite different for Midnight Mansion. Users were already accustomed to swapping files, and the barrier was low enough that many developers were requiring it. I guess people were confused by that configuration step that was required of normal users because no developers decided to distribute their mansions in a Decorum wrapper.

If I knew then what I know now, and if I had written Decorum from scratch for MM, I would have done things differently. I would have had a drop well in the GUI for users to drop mansion files and associated data into; this would build a library of mansions with custom graphics that could be swapped in by selecting them from a list and pressing a button.

Of course, that would also have been a lot more work, and the program may never have existed at all had I been that ambitious about it. It certainly will never happen now that its reason for existing has been almost entirely obviated by MM 1.0.8.

In its current form, Decorum provides a rather nice solution for those old mansions that have yet to make the jump to the 1.0.8 format (and for Dominator, which can't). It does just want I want it to do, and I'm satisfied with the way it works. So, when people complain about having to swap files and what a pain it is, I can't help but point out that it's a solved problem, at least in my eyes.

If you have any questions about the set-up process I'd be happy to answer them. It's really not that bad once you know how to do it.

You know, it just occurred to me that I could post decorum-wrapped versions of any mansion, by request, so that nobody has to learn how to do the setup themselves. If you think that would be useful, say the word and I'll do it.

ryos wrote on 27.01.2008 at 16:28:17:

@Toybox: Just launching the app gave you that error? If so, what version of Mac OS X are you running? I've not seen that.

I have OS X 10.3.9. However:


ryos wrote on 27.01.2008 at 16:28:17:

Or did it happen when you clicked the "Play" button? If so, do you, by any chance, already have Dominator in your Custom Mansions folder? On my machine, this causes the error you're seeing when the "Play" button is clicked. Move BOTH Chase the Bots AND Dominator out of your Custom Mansions folder and it should work. (Decorum has a copy of the mansions inside its application bundle, and will move them into your Custom Mansions folder when you press "Play". If they're already there, you get an error.)

Hum, yes, both Chase The Bots and Dominator are still in the Custom Mansion folder  :-[ I will try to move them away and tell you what happened.


ryos wrote on 27.01.2008 at 16:28:17:

As for the rest...well...yeah, you do have to learn how to set it up, and I recognize that this isn't ideal. The whole thing is geared towards mansion developers packaging their mansions inside Decorum and distributing them that way, so the process is not as user-friendly as it would be if I expected "normal" users to do it. The program itself is dead simple to use, but there's that barrier to entry of learning to set it up.

Ah, but fiddling with something which is *just a little bit* harder than what you are familiar with is a good way to learn: once I manage to set up Decorum following step-by-step instructions, it will be easier to understand retrospectively the underlying principles of how the installation works.

Moreover, there is the reward of playing that custom mansion afterwards, too! A little bit like cooking an elaborate dish for the first time.

Still, I'll make a safety copy of the MM folder, just in case....  ::)

ryos wrote on 27.01.2008 at 16:28:17:

Move BOTH Chase the Bots AND Dominator out of your Custom Mansions folder and it should work.

[smiley=dankk2.gif] It worked!

You're a star 8-)