So Jacob (the artist for Midnight Mansion and Midnight Mansion 2) and I have been discussing Midnight Mansion 3, and what we want to do with it. Midnight Mansion 2 has been selling well, so it looks like I'll be able to continue working on the franchise -- both good news for me, and for fans!

Here's the deal: Midnight Mansion 2 was originally an "expansion pack" that ended up turning into a full sequel. But it really is just "add ons" to the original game: new enemies, new artwork, and some new features allowing for some great new puzzles. However, for Midnight Mansion 3, I want to go all out with a "true" upgrade -- redo all artwork in high resolution, rewrite the engine so it's hardware accelerated, plus add more in-game additions than you can shake a stick at.

Some changes might be controversial. I've found that fans of the game have become *very* attached to how things are, like ladder jumping. Some are likely to be less controversial: I want to get rid of the rainbow key, and some of the weirder features, like being able to jump on a brick switch to move a flame from torch to torch.

Anyway, I'm not here to talk about all the in-game additions that will be made. I'm here to ask about a proposed structure to the mansions themselves.

What if Midnight Mansion 3 had 20-30 mansions, each about 20 rooms in length? The idea being that, instead of taking an hour to play, a mansion would take 15-20 minutes (depending on how good you are). Many adult gamers have limited time on their hands, and prefer to take play games for about 15 minutes at a time. While this is possible with Midnight Mansion's save and suspend game feature, it still feels like you "have" to get to the next save point.

There would be no save points. The mansion would be short enough that you'd beat with all the lives you have.

I know people don't like change here, so I'll probably get a lot of fans up in arms about even proposing this change, but still... I'm curious what people think.

I'm not crazy about that idea at all. I hate to see good mansions come to an end, and 20 or so rooms just seems way too short. I think the replay value would be hurt a lot.

Maybe you could have a variety?  Small-medium-large?

I think the mansions are a pretty good length. I'd say, if you want smaller mansions, make some 50 room mansions and than have some really large 100 room mansions, kinda like a "Boss" mansion which you get to once you've gone through all the other 50 room mansions. 20 rooms is just too short... It takes 20 rooms for me to really get into the mansion, to be honest. Everything else you've listed, though, sounds great. I just think 20's just too small... But maybe some 40-50 room mansions would be okay.

I don't know. I'd think you'd hedge your bet and split it down the middle, and have a mix of long and short.  One of the comments I had while working on DDD Hard was that I would have liked it if there were two types of save point:

1.) The traditional kind from MM1 and 2 which could be used once, and provided additional lives.

2.) A new type that could be used more than once, and provided *no* additional lives. It was just a save point. I might have used that more than the first kind if I'd had that option. If this isn't provided, then how about allowing the player to save wherever they wished? No actual save point.

I have to admit that I'm also not crazy about the change in direction, though it would depend on how it's done (more on that in a minute). Most of all, I'm surprised to hear this coming from you. In conversations we've had in the past, you emphasized your preference in being able to wander and explore. I can't help but think that this change would push mansions to being more dense and puzzle-oriented rather than less.

20-30 rooms seems pretty limiting. That's about the size of the treasure vault in DDD Hard, and...each of the other 5 sub-areas.

It might push the game to be closer to games such as Archibald's Adventures (which I also like, but for different reasons), but in so doing lose something that is unique to MM. 

I think it's a little sad that mansions such as Mt Peril would be lost under this scenario... 

Still, there are other mansions that might not be completely lost depending on how it's done. For example, many of the mansions are fairly linear, each having subsections that are aprox. 20-30 rooms (or less). If you're suggesting segmenting a mansion into smaller sub-sections, that wouldn't be all that different from now except that each subsection would be a mini-ending of sorts, and would be broken up by save points. Each of these subsections wouldn't necessarily have to end in a vault - would they?

It could also be that the increased resolution would provide more game area to be displayed in a single room. Presently, each room can support 3 floors reasonably well. Under a high resolution screen, and shrinking things down a bit, I suppose it would be possible to double that and increase the amount of game area viewed at a time.

Yet another possibility would be if a single "room" was larger than what could be displayed in a single screen, and would move with Jack as he walked towards the edge. I know there have been times when I felt somewhat constrained by the size of a room. This larger size would offset the lower number of rooms.

Out of curiosity... have you had a large number of complaints about the size? I work some pretty long hours, and have never had an issue with using the suspend option. Were there times when I wished I could save wherever/whenever I wished as many times as I wanted? Sure... but I've never wished that the mansions were shorter.

Anyhow... just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

I like where you're going with this Vern. In the opinion of designing a great game, I would suggest of having each level moderate in length where it would not be the necessarily the number of rooms, perhaps the way it is designed and how much time the average player takes to beat it -- which would be 20-30 mins.

If I was helping design the game I would have a lot of smaller 20-30 min mansions that each contained a theme. For example, one mansion focused around avoiding enemies and trapping them. Another might be all about zapper beams. Who knows, seeing there will probably be a whole bunch of new features.  After you've covered a bunch of themes there would be a larger, 150 room mansion (with save points, maybe?) which contained all of those themes combined. So there would be 5 little ones, then a big one, 5 more little ones, then a big one, until 30 is reached. Each big one would have the features from *all* the previous smaller levels...

It's all in the distant future, however, since the port for Windows and iPhone is going to come first.

On another note:
A in-depth storyline is a huge aspect of a video game these days and has a huge potential in attracting people of buying games. For example, I was drawn in to Ambrosia's game Aquaria because the storyline just gave you a cliffhanger feeling, leaving the player sort of guilty of not knowing what happens, in a certain way. That's the way I felt, and it worked-- I bought that game within a week. :P It's an excellent game example of an intriguing storyline. Additionally, it had a level editor in which you could design your own levels -- I find that a must-have for a game to attract player communities. Frankly, MM1 might have been a lost cause without a level editor in my opinion.

Oh, also another huge change I would make is the ability to have much larger rooms. I myself am designing another game with my brother that is a side-scroller (much much different from MM) and we are going to have instead of 'rooms', massive sections in levels. I don't think that would be a good idea for your particular game design, but having larger rooms and adding a bit of scrolling in there would add a nice touch.

I have done quite a lot of research of video game marketing and design lately. :P Anyway... I do have more ideas, but perhaps later. It's late in my niche of the world.

No, I don't like the idea. The point ins't to come to the end in a short time but to conquer the difficulties and try o find the secrets and get as money as possible. Short mansions will only be played once not many times as one do now.

One approach to combine Vern's thoughts about smaller mansions and at least some other peoples' opinions is perhaps the Catacombs approach:

How about a save point after each 15 rooms or so (make it a rule) and an exit door?  That way players can decide whther they want to go out or save for the next time.

I myself am against making any size limits.

This Topic was moved here from Game Improvements by brell.

I'd have no problem with some small mansions but I agree with Rose that the replay value is higher in larger mansions. With the included mansions half the fun is trying to get both a high score, all of the secrets and the shortest time to make it on to the high scores list. With a smaller mansion it wouldn't take that many times through to do all of that.

And I'll add as an adult player, I don't always have time to finish a mansion at once. Heck, this weekend was a rarity for me to play a mansion straight through. But I use the Saves and the Pause button.

I don't really like the idea of short mansions. While Vern's argument with the adult gamers that don't have enough time on their hands does make sense, I always found that the real thrill only comes with larger mansions that take you through a couple of sections, each of which has their own little mission ("Get purple key here to open door 10 rooms down to switch lever that opens trapdoor to the next section" or stuff like that).

As you can tell from my own custom mansions, I just like epic stuff with a lot going on and maybe a nice little story in the back, like Aquamat's "Complex" or Freddy's "House of Wonders" or Brell's "Pirate Invasion". However, this is just my personal preference.

Plus: If you are an adult gamer and you really are running out of time, there's always the option to "suspend" the game and "resume" it later.

I think it would be a good idea to have a quick play option and a full play option. In quick play, there will be short mansions that shouldn't take more than an hour (or 30 mins) to beat. And in Full play, there should be the normal large sized mansion.

What do you guys think?

The pictures on the map could reflect the size of the mansions: a large castle for a 200 rooms mansion, vs. a hut for a 20 rooms one for example.

So the map would be peppered by huts, schacks and shrubberies between castle, keeps and manors.

I don't like small mansions at all.
For me bigger is the mansion bigger is the enjoyment!

Okay, so it's clear we won't be doing away with large mansions.

But what if, like ToyBox suggests, there were small ones between?

More specifically, what if the game had *paths* from one mansion to the next? When you first start out, you have only one option of what to play first. But it's a small mansion... maybe a short cave, that when jack gets to the end, there is just an exit, not treasure. But upon beating it, 2 more paths open up. Maybe one leads to another "connecter" area (perhaps a "forest" or other outdoor area), and one bigger "real" mansion.

So no, you wouldn't likely replay the little ones very much, but they give this sense of progression, and a story could be worked in, such that at each point, things happen.

Like for the first mini mansion, when you first start it, a person comes up to you and says:

"Jack! Your sister has disappeared! Someone said they thought they saw a woman being dragged up north by a big creature late last night! But Jack… the way to the castle is through the Forrest of Terror! Please be careful!"

You can't do story like that if you can play the mansions in random order like you can now. But you could have a story if it was more controlled.

I will play Devil's Advocate here, and suggest that the mansions in MM2 suffer a bit because of their length.

There are a few mansions (and my own are included) that I feel have "extra" sections that are simply tacked on for length, where a smaller, 50-60 room mansion may have given a more satisfying experience overall.

Exploration and Puzzles are the meat of Midnight Mansion, so of course those attributes need to be preserved at all costs.

Maybe it's old age or my ADD kicking in, but I would rather play 20 to 30 mansions with 40 or 50 rooms, instead of the typical 8 mansions with 80-100 rooms.

Edit:  Vern's suggestion of a compromise actually sounds pretty good.  8-10 meaty mansions and a few "hub" levels to connect them.

I like Toybox's idea of lots of smaller-to-midsize areas and a few large mansions. Perhaps you need to clear out some number of smaller areas before you can get to a larger one.

This may be controversial, but one thing that I'm not a fan of in the current game is three sets of very similar mansions. I'd rather see either:

A) three different sets of mansions - so that it feels like different stories. Not Simply: A - Easy, A - Med, A - Hard. A, B, and C would be very different in size and difficulty. This would by my *least* preferred approach.

B) An overall story that starts off with easier areas, but is mostly Normal as the game progresses (possibly with some optional Hard areas that have to be unlocked.) This would have a map more along the lines of what Toybox suggested.

I kind of like this idea, except for if you have folks who only play easy mansions, then at some point they would be unable to continue on, which kind of stinks.

C)  Could be thought of as a combination of A and B, though really it's just a variation of B.

  1.) An easy mini storyline with easy mansions that could serve as a warm-up. (it's own unique game map). All easy, many short, but perhaps ending with a normal mansion.

  2.) A separate "Main story" more along the lines outlined in idea "B". Different map/story from Easy. Perhaps without optional hard areas.

  3.) A handful of standalone hard mansions, perhaps with their own mini story/stories. They would be lengthy and better able to support a standalone story of some kind. These mansions might function in a similar way that the included custom mansions do now, and offer a difficult challenge to those who are interested.

The "C" option is my favorite. I figure this approach gives something for everyone. The easy players have a complete though much shorter "story" they could play through. There would be a large story at mostly Normal (and some easy) mansions. Finally, there would be a few lengthy Hard mansions. It would also be the most work to produce.

Edits: to better show my preference. Basically, it progresses from least to most preferred.

Interesting you should mention that, Rob.

One thing Jacob also suggested (to me by email) is that we ditch having 3 separate mansion versions for each difficulty. Instead give the player lots of lives, like 30, for Easy. But the gameplay is about the same as Normal.

We might still have a separate "Hard" version of the mansion. But then designers only do Normal and Hard. Easy is normal just with 30 lives.

That might not work the best, seeing brand new players to the game will have a hard time playing normal mode mansions. My little brother today was telling me how hard normal mode seems compared to easy. With 30 lives it would only add to new player's frustration.

Now what might make it better though, is to have what Rob suggested the first mansions to be quite easy, and progress to normal mode throughout the game with hard it's own category.

For the record, I suggested to Vern having *infinite* lives for Easy.  Without a fear of a game over, the player might be encouraged to try more difficult jumps, etc.

As for Rob's suggestion, I don't like the idea of having mansions that some player will never see, especially if we're talking large mansions that may have 80 rooms.  It seems like a waster if half the players will never see it!

Jacob, you think that half the players don't see anything beyond Easy?

It seems reasonable to me that Normal mansions might be able to played with infinite lives. It could be that you simply make that a setting (like the violence setting) that can be in effect throughout ALL mansions.

It kind of begs the question though... should you be allowed to record a high score in a non-easy mansion if "infinite lives" is in effect? I would say "no"

I like keeping three difficulty settings on a mansion. I still so vividly recall when I first started playing and changing from Easy to Normal and then Normal to Hard being such a jump and taking a lot of time. I never used the easy jumping option but when I first encountered many of those small floaters (in Octopus Mansion) it took me forever to figure out how to do the jump.

I'm not a huge gamer, in fact MM is the only game I really play except for solitaire. Maybe that's why it took me awhile. And to Anthony's comment on his brother, that is one of the nice things about MM is younger players being able to play it.

And as far as a few small mansions to progress, that's fine. But also make sure the new player has enough options and play time to progress. Those of us who are experienced players wouldn't need that but any new players would. So who's the market and do you potentially shut out new players? (Devil's advocate here.)

I like the 3 difficulty levels, too. But it definitely is more interesting when the mansion takes on more rooms and challenges as you progress.  Just adding more creatures to the same mansion isn't nearly as fun.

Pretty much agreewith everyone else, it takes several rooms to really get the feel of a mansion. Small mansions seem to make more sense for iPhone play.

Rob Seegel wrote on 01.09.2010 at 07:07:16:

Jacob, you think that half the players don't see anything beyond Easy?

Well, my point is, the Normal/Hard mansions in MM *now* are based on existing mansions, so the players have "seen" them in some form or another if they play through easy, unlike designing an 80-room mansion specifically for "hard" mode only.

Something I suggested to Vern was the following.  The game map is made up of 4 or 5 "regions" (think islands or something), each one with about 8 mansions (maybe 2 large and 3 medium and 3 small).  They start out as "normal" mansions, and when you beat the "boss mansion" for each region, Jack finds some artifact or trinket that, when disturbed, causes on earthquake on that island that changes all of the mansions.  New passages are opened up, new monsters appear, etc.  That way, they become "hard" mansions in an organic way, and you can go back and play them (and they're completely optional) for more treasure and more paths to hidden mansions, etc.

It lets the player progress from Normal to Hard in an organic way, and makes all the hard mansions hard in a very consistent way, and something related to the story of the game.  And, you're essentially doubling the gameplay for one playthrough of the game.

"Easy mode", in this suggestion, is still infinite lives, but still the "normal" and "broken" versions of each mansion during a playthrough.  Either easy players' high scores aren't saved, or they are saved in a separate table as it is handled now.

I was thinking, maybe for easy mode, there could be some sort of hint system rather than just changing the mansions, and maybe there could be some completely different mansions between the two. And hard mode could be unlocked until a certain point and in hard mode there would be much harder mansion to challenge the most experienced players.

BTW - I like Vern's idea of having a sorta map system, kinda reminds me of Super Mario games a bit where you have a choice of which level to go to next

maybe you should try making the easier mansions shorter and possibly make them longer based on the difficulty selected?

That's an idea we used towards to the end of designing the levels in MM2. Two of my mansions are like that -- Mt. Peril Easy is quite short, while the other two get longer and longer. Also Jasperlone Mountains is quite short on easy mode, moderately long in normal and very very long on hard mode. Castle Basano, however, only had a longer version in the hard version.

I'm not sure what the other designers did. :P

TC&TC easy, normal and hard are 80, 90 and 100 rooms respectively.

I like the idea of a mansion that is divided into smaller sections, which get harder as Jack moves on, wiht a saving point and an escape between each section.  Reminds me of the Catacombs concept and Freddy's Midnight Mazes and Monsters.

Quote:

Something I suggested to Vern was the following.  The game map is made up of 4 or 5 "regions" (think islands or something), each one with about 8 mansions (maybe 2 large and 3 medium and 3 small).  They start out as "normal" mansions, and when you beat the "boss mansion" for each region, Jack finds some artifact or trinket that, when disturbed, causes on earthquake on that island that changes all of the mansions.  New passages are opened up, new monsters appear, etc.  That way, they become "hard" mansions in an organic way, and you can go back and play them (and they're completely optional) for more treasure and more paths to hidden mansions, etc. It lets the player progress from Normal to Hard in an organic way, and makes all the hard mansions hard in a very consistent way, and something related to the story of the game.  And, you're essentially doubling the gameplay for one playthrough of the game.

The problem I foresee with this is that some players just want to jump into "hard" mode straight away, without having to play through normal mansions.  Personally I like to play Normal and Hard modes (and occasionally Easy, just to see what is new and different) but it doesn't seem nice to force all players to play through Normal before they can access Hard.  In fact, I think that may even be a "Twinkie Denial Condition" in the Game Designer's Notebook (Bad Designer!  No Twinkie for you!)

Alan has got a point here!

You'd have to have a system where you sign in as a certain player as well. My niece wouldn't be able to play when I take my computer over there if all the mansions have turned into Hard ones.

Invid wrote on 05.09.2010 at 06:39:54:

You'd have to have a system where you sign in as a certain player as well. My niece wouldn't be able to play when I take my computer over there if all the mansions have turned into Hard ones.

You can do that now. At the main screen, lower right it shows the current player and an option to change the player. This keeps track of which of the current mansions each player has beat.

Alan Falcon wrote on 04.09.2010 at 15:27:35:

The problem I foresee with this is that some players just want to jump into "hard" mode straight away, without having to play through normal mansions.  Personally I like to play Normal and Hard modes (and occasionally Easy, just to see what is new and different) but it doesn't seem nice to force all players to play through Normal before they can access Hard.  In fact, I think that may even be a "Twinkie Denial Condition" in the Game Designer's Notebook (Bad Designer!  No Twinkie for you!)

You can very easily get around this by having a setting on the options or from the New Game screen.  Something like "Start Me on Hard!"

I don't see how my solution is any more restrictive than what we already have (with the exception of no typical Easy mode)

But if we don't have an easy mode (whether it is a part of a bigger mansion or not, we will propably discourage new players from buying the game.  They will think that MM is too hard for them.

Vern, if you are going to make major changes in MM3 anyway, how about making use of all the unintended stuff that builders have found, like ladderjumps etc.?  Those things are IMO one of the many jewels of the game and I am sure there are still some more to find, more so now, that MM2 is out.  There is clearly much more than meets the eye in the game.  Unintended or not, this is what keeps the game alive, because these are actually new features to the players.

brell wrote on 05.09.2010 at 18:25:39:

But if we don't have an easy mode (whether it is a part of a bigger mansion or not, we will propably discourage new players from buying the game.  They will think that MM is too hard for them.

Well, Alan wasn't talking about lack of Easy mode. ;)

My thinking is that many casual gamers, old and very young alike, who have gotten into the game, wouldn't have, if we hadn't had an Easy mode in the original Midnight Mansion.

I remember watching a 6-year-old piano student of mine try the game on Normal. He literally fell into almost every ditch he possibly could, anytime there was a jump of 3 tiles or more. Lessons learned: make most gaps on Easy only 2 tiles wide at most.

While this resulted in gameplay that was downright boring to me, Jacob, or Alan, it is likely the only way that casual gamers would have ever gotten ito the game.

Even giving a player infinite lives on Normal isn't the same, because while the player can repeatedly run into enemies and "take them out" that way, the jumps won't get any easier. I'm thinking mansions still need to be made specifically for Easy mode.

What makes this difficult however is that players have come to expect *more* changes between easy/normal/hard than just making it actually easier or harder. They want more rooms. New secrets. etc. And this takes a *lot* of time. And every minute that Jacob or I are doing easy/hard changes, is time we're not spending that could be spent on additional artwork or programming features. And when it comes to other mansion designers, it's time that could be spent instead on additional mansions.

Jacob's reason for wanting to eliminate easy (and possibly hard) mansions (and just have an "Easy mode" that gives infinite lives) is we could provide 24 mansions, instead of 8 that have 3 difficulties. Which would players rather have?

But it seems the response from this thread is loud and clear: players would rather have 8 mansions, with 3 distinctly different difficulties, than 24 mansions that are all 1 difficulty (with game modes that change how many lives Jack has).

I think sticking with 3 different difficulties is the right choices, to keep attracting more casual gamers (old and young) to the game. But we are considering ALL options for MM3!

We even briefly considered removing the "pseudo-3D" look that Midnight Mansion has, making it more "flat" like Super Mario, which still looks very good. But after a mockup, we decided against this!

Sometimes it's just good to re-evaluate decisions and make sure they're the right ones.

Vern, when I saw your initial post with the smaller sized mansions, I was actually thinking that the main driver might have been the desire to move the game to mobile devices. I was thinking the smaller size mansions made much sense in that context.

I wonder if it might be better to have a Mobile or Micro-edition of the game that is more tailored to the needs of the smaller devices than the same exact game. Again.. more work would be needed.

I agree with Vern here keeping the game 3 difficulties. The number of mansions, however, could vary, with larger ones and smaller ones to fit in with a nice storyline, in my opinion. :P

When you first mentioned to me how easy mansions' gaps should be 2 wide I had to agree, after watching my younger brother have a go at my Leofani Manor Easy, prior from when I made the change you suggested to make the gaps smaller. For example, that gap in the 'mad scientist's lab' there was originally 4 tiles wide. I remember you had someone test it and they didn't even attempt to jump it, instead they tried to find another way around. Making the mansions so to speak 'stupid-easy' to us is indeed advisable even though not quite enjoyable to more advanced players. That's what hard mode is for. :P

Anyway, on a side note, Rob was speaking of having MM on mobile. Speaking of that, I was kinda curious on how you would have that work on the iPhone and whatnot.

I noticed that Apple's new Retina (on the new touch and on the new iPhone) display has a massive screen resolution for such as small space -- 960x640. MM's game resolution is currently 640x480. This leaves so much room for controls and whatnot -- I remember Toybox (or someone) giving an example to have certain parts of the screen which you can touch do different things. I must say, that would be rather complicated and not too user-friendly.

With the larger display on the iPod now, you'll have about an inch on each side of the screen for controls such as movement (up down left right buttons)  and on the other side two buttons for the action and map and across the bottom jump, or something. You'd have lots of room for these controls to be put in.

On a further note: Remember Pangea software and Enigmo? Did decently well on computer in terms of sales. The guy released the first version on iPod after Enigmo 2 was already had already been out for a couple years. Instead of just flat-out putting Engimo 2 out there because it's simply better he went a head and released the first version instead. It sold awesomely, and waited about a year and then released Engimo 2 for the iPod which did really well I hear. Are you going to plan on doing something like that with MM on the iPod/iPhone?  ::) Anyway.

Keep the Easy versions. I would never have been able to get far in a Normal mansion when I first started playing MM, and I didn't start young. It takes time to get the skill to jump and kneel and what ever. Brain - finger communications has to be trained.

How about a bonus mansion after beating both the Easy and Normal mansions? And have it somewhere between the easy and normal difficulty and between the normal and hard difficulty. Even though Spider Palace was harder than the others it still took me awhile to get my skills up to the next level to play and beat the mansions in the next difficulty. So I'm thinking a mansion to help players a little with what to expect at the next level. And have it at a normal length so they get plenty of gameplay to advance their skills.

How about different mansions in each difficulty category instead of repeating more or less the same mansions 3 times?

brell wrote on 13.09.2010 at 03:53:29:

How about different mansions in each difficulty category instead of repeating more or less the same mansions 3 times?

That sounds more exciting in my opinion. The more, the merrier :D :D :D :D :D :D

brell wrote on 13.09.2010 at 03:53:29:

How about different mansions in each difficulty category instead of repeating more or less the same mansions 3 times?

Lol do you have any idea how long that would take on behalf of the designer's to do? :P Oh wait, you do. Nevermind.

Anthony wrote on 14.09.2010 at 03:54:01:

brell wrote on 13.09.2010 at 03:53:29: How about different mansions in each difficulty category instead of repeating more or less the same mansions 3 times? Lol do you have any idea how long that would take on behalf of the designer's to do? :P Oh wait, you do. Nevermind.

Hehe  8-)

I haven't read this whole thread yet but I saw some talk about Easy mansions and my firm opinion is keep them!! I am a huge fan of the game but I'm not the expert that many others are. I have never completed a Hard mansion, for example - and I have finished maybe half the Normal mansions in MM1. I think Vern already mentioned that Easy mansions means more customers too, which sounds about right to me. Folks like me who prefer Easy and Normal don't write as much here, so I thought I should put a word in! Anyway, the beauty of the game is the ability to create games of *any* difficulty.

The other idea that I noticed was smaller mansions. I guess a mix of sizes would please everyone, but even as a more "casual" player, I still prefer huge mansions with complex paths and rewarding moments where each new area "opens up". I have no problem whatsoever with interrupting my progress in a big mansion with save points and suspensions. I've certainly never completed any mansion in one go, nor have I desired to. But again, the game allows for a huge variety so why not play with different sizes in the "official" mansions.

Quick question for you Rhywun:

Do you find the Easy versions of the mansions in MM2 to be a lot harder than the ones in MM1? I'm hoping they didn't get too much harder if they did get harder at all...

Just thought I'd ask you, since you mentioned you play easy the most.

(Not to butt in here.. ) but I did find the Easy MM2 mansions a little harder than MM1, and the Normal MM2's a lot harder than MM1. Sometimes I like a relaxing easy game, or have children visiting who aren't "experts" so Easy levels are important.

VernJensen wrote on 23.09.2010 at 02:36:16:

Do you find the Easy versions of the mansions in MM2 to be a lot harder than the ones in MM1?

No, I don't find the Easy mansions in MM2 any harder than MM1. If anything, they might be easier, because it feels like I got thru all the Easy mansions a lot faster than in MM1 - but there are other possible reasons. Maybe I got better :-/ Or maybe I just spent more time on it.

Perhaps more importantly, after completing a few Easy mansions, I got to feel that Easy was too easy, but then I would try a Normal mansion and it would feel a bit harder than I wanted - I'd quickly drop to one or two lives after a bunch of stupid deaths, and quit out of frustration. Maybe - and I know this would pose an enormous challenge - there should a more gradual increase in difficulty as one progresses. You would have to make it more linear then, instead of letting the user choose from any of six or seven Easy mansions. But I don't like linear, so I would open up at least two new mansions for each completed one.

This might then fit with the idea of having smaller mansions, which would be easier to "control" for various levels of difficulty. I was opposed to the idea of smaller mansions at first, but the more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Not only would it be easier to allow a gradual increase in difficulty, but I think it would allow for more variety too. But I still love a huge mansion so I think a range of different sizes would be ideal.

I like the idea of harder mansions unlocking the later you get in the game, but if say you wanted to go back and play the mansions again on easy it wouldn't be possible? An idea would be to allow you to replay on any difficulty setting after you beat every mansion? Or perhaps beating all the easy mansions would give you a new map with a new set of mansions to play, all at a harder level of difficulty. For people who wanted to start out hard there could be some kind of secret that could escort you immediately to a farther map/land similar to the NES version of SB3?  But keep it so you could go back and play older mansions. And for the fact of time NOONE has enough. The suspend feature is one of the greatest features of midnight mansion. For plot you could have the hero Jack Malone be robbed by a dark shadowed character who has locked the Malone fortune in his hidden castle, which you must find by collecting maps. You then embark on the adventure as Jack Malone's daughter/son.

VernJensen wrote on 30.08.2010 at 05:59:18:

Midnight Mansion 2 has been selling well, so it looks like I'll be able to continue working on the franchise -- both good news for me, and for fans! I'm here to ask about a proposed structure to the mansions themselves. What if Midnight Mansion 3 had 20-30 mansions, each about 20 rooms in length? The idea being that, instead of taking an hour to play, a mansion would take 15-20 minutes. While this is possible with Midnight Mansion's save and suspend game feature, it still feels like you "have" to get to the next save point. There would be no save points. The mansion would be short enough that you'd beat with all the lives you have.

Congratulations Vern.  It's nice to know that MM2 is selling well.  It's offered in PC version now, isn't it?  If yes, what are the sale numbers on Mac vs PC?
It would be interesting to know which has the strongest market share.

MM 3 with a whole new look would be great.  However, from what I have read in many game review posts, NO ONE LIKES A GAME THAT IS TO SHORT.  They don't feel they get their monies worth.    I suggest you do more homework, search game reviews.

Shorter mansions leave one feeling flat & that is a fact.  ALL games have a pause or suspend feature.  Gamers are quite happy knowing that they can come back to a game that has them hooked.  It's more satisfying when you have a HUGE MANSION that has so many twists & turns that you want to throw your computer out the window out of frustration.  That feeling in itself is what keeps a gamers wanting more.  There's more satisfaction in finishing a tough game with a high score, than finishing a quickie game.  Like I said, google search game reviews.

I buy from Big Fish Games.....check out their review pages. 
NO ONE LIKES A GAME THAT FINISHES QUICKLY. NO CHANCE FOR THE ADRENALINE & OBSESSION TO REV UP.

Looking for a whole new look? 

What about Moon, Mars, Venus etc., exploration.  Underground ancient temples, caverns, crystals, carvings, acid lakes/ponds, lily pads to jump on and 
Alien creatures.  Leaping lizards, fire spouting creatures. Space ship & station base.

Jack in a space suit with a Jet pack, rocket belt, or rocket pack, maneuvering unit.  Instead of just jumping, his jet pack fires up and he flys to the next ledge or brick.

Laser gun.  Jack has to find laser charges.  Only a limited amount to kill the biggest creatures.  It could also shoot out a spiders web, acid water, and a freeze liquid, rendering the creature in stasis for a short time only. 

Think of the movies, Indians Jones & Alien.  Those two sure do have a lot of great scenery, creatures, and traps and gadgets......that's for sure. 
Solving the mysteries of the ancients, Indiana Jones style.  Loads of fun.

That's my 2 cents, for what it's worth.   ;)

Regarding the Suspend button & trying to make it to the next save.

There must be some way to suspend a game & start a new one, without loosing ones place in the suspended game.

That way a person doesn't have to panic looking for a save, especially when one is so frustrated & wants to take a break and try out another game.

Multiple suspends.  That would solve a lot of problems.

Missy wrote on 27.12.2011 at 11:23:46:

Congratulations Vern.  It's nice to know that MM2 is selling well.  It's offered in PC version now, isn't it?  If yes, what are the sale numbers on Mac vs PC? It would be interesting to know which has the strongest market share.

MM2 and MM HD are two different things.  MM HD has now a Windows version.  MM2 doesn't.

MM HD is MM1 with HD graphics.

I'd like to have a way to save the game without trying to run through the mansion looking for a save stone as those are few and far between it seems. I personally love the mansion lengths although I am busy as I'm sure other people are. To me the bigger the mansion the better because if it's too short, it seems anticlimactic to me.

Also when is Haunted Hills going to be updated for Mac?

Meredith Wyatt wrote on 15.04.2015 at 04:44:34:

I'd like to have a way to save the game without trying to run through the mansion looking for a save stone as those are few and far between it seems. I personally love the mansion lengths although I am busy as I'm sure other people are. To me the bigger the mansion the better because if it's too short, it seems anticlimactic to me.

But you can always suspend a game

i tried  ::)

Hi Meredith- hit "escape" and a window will pop up giving you several options. Click on "suspend" and it will hold your game until the next time you launch MM.

Note: You cannot start another game and still keep the first one suspended. The next time you launch MM, the pop up window will ask if you want to resume your suspended game or start another. Hope this helps  :)

I knew that XD I was tired when I wrote it :D

I feel like six lives is too few to start with. Maybe 15 for those who want to get a feel for it. I can't tell you how many times I've died because I didn't realize I had to jump over a hole due to floor missing. I know it's supposed to be a mansion and haunted but brighter lighting from the lantern and the sconces and candelabras would be good too. I mean when you have not very good eyesight and have trouble seeing the darker greys, greens, and reds you get mad at yourself a lot! :)

Meredith Wyatt wrote on 18.04.2015 at 10:02:10:

I feel like six lives is too few to start with. Maybe 15 for those who want to get a feel for it. I can't tell you how many times I've died because I didn't realize I had to jump over a hole due to floor missing. I know it's supposed to be a mansion and haunted but brighter lighting from the lantern and the sconces and candelabras would be good too. I mean when you have not very good eyesight and have trouble seeing the darker greys, greens, and reds you get mad at yourself a lot! :)

Yes but you start with the training mansion (Hint House), right?  That is where you get an overall feeling and training for the other mansions.  Holes in the floor and dark areas are part of the game.
I have heard that there is a cheating way to add extra lives but I don't know how.

brell wrote on 18.04.2015 at 18:24:10:

I have heard that there is a cheating way to add extra lives but I don't know how.

I think that was in the Builder time, that (some) people put a bunch of backpacks right in front of Jack in the starting position so that he got a number of more lives before going anywhere into the mansion... :) Or perhaps there's another way (?)

If I remember correctly, you pause the game and type "extralife" (without the quotation marks). Or something like that.  ::)

Semi-Native wrote on 19.04.2015 at 05:58:40:

If I remember correctly, you pause the game and type "extralife" (without the quotation marks). Or something like that.  ::)

I also heard that doing so meant that you may not be able to submit your ranking for that session online... But this is just an old wives tale... Right?

The final window will say that you used cheats.