In the old days we designed a mansion, searched for beta testers and finally asked to launch it as an approved custom mansion on the boards. Made for other players!

Nowadays Midnight Mansion is 'our' oldtimer game that we like to take care of, keep alive, honour. But, for the time being, we all are designers, beta testers, administrators and players at the same time. And we are few.

That is why I propose to do an open beta testing for MM2 - Brave New World. No bilateral sendings of mails with (parts of) a mansion anymore. Just a post with, as a start, an attachment of 10 rooms. And public debate over here with 'all members'.

Enclosed you'll find a zip-file that after unzipping leads to an idea of how the start of the mansion may be. Feel free to have a look and post any remarks, suggestions, ... It includes an exit door, so you're supposed to play the 'mansion' in the MM2-app. Please don't open it in the builder.

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A very interesting Jack-stuck:

I stopped the moving platform at that postition and jumped on it. Can't walk or jump off it.

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I have had so much fun with your reply!

It was a rather difficult room to create, because it all started with something odd  that I saw while I was starting with this room. So it took a while till everything fitted. I thought ...

It is always amazing that players/testers keep on finding situations where play may go wrong. And therefor it is also a reminder that the assistance of beta testers is very important.

For mutual fun I added the 2nd zip that not only contains the JS-fixing. Enjoy!

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There is still a problem with this room.  Let's say a player forgets to pull the lever on the second floor before going to the third floor.  He has trapped the skeletons in the gap as shown on the picture above.  He has no way to go back from the third to the second floor to pull the lever for the upper moving platform without loosing one live to the skeletons.

You're right again. Thx! I did a new attempt to fix this, but couldn't add new rooms.
;)

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Hmm.... this is a strange fix.  It is impossible to avoid the skeletons now.  At least I cannot see a way to bypass them.

Aha, at last I have you where I want you! A room where is something that may not have been seen in a mansion.

For the solution you don't need any hidden thing at all. It goes in two seperate steps. I am sure you did or at least could find the first one. But the second step is a kind of surprise.

OK
Been to most of the rooms and haven't found any more flaws yet.  Will try again later.
Nice mansion.

Since you nicely call it a 'mansion', may I assume that your Jack did find the exit gate? And also some secrets?

I am also interested in some other things, because I want to be sure that this way of building is okay to continue.

1. In not dark or secret rooms I limited the money to a $ 100 / room and kept the number of shields low. Do you have the feeling that the game is fair concerning the balance between the risk of death vs. money and shields?
2. Graphics and music are not my priorities right now (maybe later). But the flow is!! I have tried to make a mansion with a lot of curves in it, often leading to multiple visits of a room. I also tried to take care that Jack nearly always has something to do, while avoiding too much danger or backtracking. Did that work out?
3. Is there enough variety in the activities for Jack?

I'll try to answer your questions later.  Need more time for testing first.

Found the exit gate and some secrets :-)

Which room looks best, 1 or 2? (I prefer the black background because of the contrast.)

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Actually, both look good to me.
Room 1 gives the player the feeling that he is inside, in a dark cellar perhaps.
Room 2 gives an outside sunset feeling.

I like the second one.  :)

As a test I am doing this: I added the outdoor background to the dark rooms. So Jack first have to find the lantern to see them.
8-)

Meanwhile I also did three other things.

First of all I went back to that skeletons room (see added pic) where brell found a half Jack-stuck and after my repairs a complete Jack Stuck. Now, after I did 'fix' that as well I figured out that when Jack re-entered the room in the upper right corner there was a new full Jack-stuck. But with my extra changes there were once again serious problems when Jack reappeared in the room on the bottom row.

For that alone there was enough reason to give you a new betatesting edition.

But I did more. Much more. In the whole first area I did a lot of polish work, including music and some art. When you have a look in the new version, please do command+D.

In 16099 the jumps on the conveyor belts are more normal now.
In 16100 the upper left corner changed a little bit.
In 16299 the conveyor belt is a little bit longer and two leverplatforms got changed.
In 16300 I added a safety block in the lower left corner and I changed the flight of the red kites.
In 16298 the lever with the blue knot and the blue key moved a little bit to the right. A silver coin was removed and a gold one added.
Room 15898 is hopefully okay right now. I did gamma tested a lot.
;)
In 15900 I moved the yellow door to the left what makes the handling of the scorpions easier. The jump from the conveyor belt to the left wasn't difficult, but after a slight change it now looks more obvious now.
In the transit room it's easier to take the two gold coins.

Finally I also started with a second area with a complex idea that yet is not exposed in this betatesting version. But there are some extra rooms to visit. Enclosed is a picture of a room, just to show how important it is to be full awake while building. At the left you see that the lever is above the moneybag. Previously that was the other way round what created a Jack-stuck!
::)
The ugly, but solid red blocks are important for the safety of Jack because there are major road works ahead.

Enjoy!

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Freddy wrote on 28.12.2022 at 17:15:08:

I am also interested in some other things, because I want to be sure that this way of building is okay to continue. 1. In not dark or secret rooms I limited the money to a $ 100 / room and kept the number of shields low. Do you have the feeling that the game is fair concerning the balance between the risk of death vs. money and shields? 2. Graphics and music are not my priorities right now (maybe later). But the flow is!! I have tried to make a mansion with a lot of curves in it, often leading to multiple visits of a room. I also tried to take care that Jack nearly always has something to do, while avoiding too much danger or backtracking. Did that work out? 3. Is there enough variety in the activities for Jack?

1. Fair, yes. But:
Room #16099:  There is a silver coin in the lower left corner.  To get it you have to release the eyeball, which you then must avoid.  IMO this is a little reward.  May be put a "T" trigger in there which will reveal a rugsack or something on the uppermost floor?
Room #16298:  A gold coin is a small reward for all the jumping.  Perhaps to reveal the blue key with a "T"?

2. Yes.

3. Yes.


I haven't found out where to use the rainbow key.  Perhaps you haven't decided/finished where to use it?
There is a dark secret room which does not have any lantern assigned to it.  Are you going to change that?  It seems necessary to me to be able to get to the room below to stop the zapper beam.

Overall I like how the mansion is expanding and developing.

Thx for your reply with all the input, brell. Did you use the zip 003 or zip 004?

1. My bad. Sorry. I indeed forgot to change something for the betatesting-copy on the boards. Find 005 with the fixing. Now you will be able to use the rainbow key and find the exit gate. But in 004 or 005 you are supposed to do 'something blue' first. Did you?

2. So far, for all dark areas there is a lantern. Is the first added image from the room you are talking about? Then it was very important to immediately do something about the double zapper beam to avoid a cheap death in the room below! But there is a way to a lantern (follow the sparkling stars and avoid the absence of stars) ... and a helpful map for further progress.
:P  ;)

3. I have a future idea for the first rug sack (in section 3), so I don't like to give it away so early in the mansion. But of course it was my pleasure to do something else to honour Jack's activities. See the second picture (because this change is NOT included in zip 005). I may hope that your Jack did use the ladder (twice) to avoid the left eye ball?

4. Did you find the 'clean' way through in the skeletons room? Thus without spending shields or lives.

Besides room 16099 I also made several changes in 16502 to make that room more normal and fair. And in room 16298 there is an extra gold coin. All these changed rooms are for zip 006 somewhere in future.

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Freddy wrote on 09.01.2023 at 01:34:47:

Thx for your reply with all the input, brell. Did you use the zip 003 or zip 004?

I used 004


Freddy wrote on 09.01.2023 at 01:34:47:

1. My bad. Sorry. I indeed forgot to change something for the betatesting-copy on the boards. Find 005 with the fixing. Now you will be able to use the rainbow key and find the exit gate. But in 004 or 005 you are supposed to do 'something blue' first. Did you?

Not sure I know what you mean by "something blue".  But I'm pretty sure I have visited all "visitable" rooms. Found the exit.


Freddy wrote on 09.01.2023 at 01:34:47:

2. So far, for all dark areas there is a lantern. Is the first added image from the room you are talking about? Then it was very important to immediately do something about the double zapper beam to avoid a cheap death in the room below! But there is a way to a lantern (follow the sparkling stars and avoid the absence of stars) ... and a helpful map for further progress. :P  ;)

I am talking about room #16498. There seems to be no lantern for that room.  As far as I can tell you need to be able to go from that room to the room below to shut down a zapper beam.


Freddy wrote on 09.01.2023 at 01:34:47:

3. I have a future idea for the first rug sack (in section 3), so I don't like to give it away so early in the mansion. But of course it was my pleasure to do something else to honour Jack's activities. See the second picture (because this change is NOT included in zip 005). I may hope that your Jack did use the ladder (twice) to avoid the left eye ball?

I used the ladder, yes, and I also did that in the room below the skeleton room.


Freddy wrote on 09.01.2023 at 01:34:47:

4. Did you find the 'clean' way through in the skeletons room? Thus without spending shields or lives.

Yes.


Freddy wrote on 09.01.2023 at 01:34:47:

Besides room 16099 I also made several changes in 16502 to make that room more normal and fair. And in room 16298 there is an extra gold coin. All these changed rooms are for zip 006 somewhere in future.

OK.  Waiting for the extra gold coin  8-)

Lunch break at the office.

Something blue = the blue area. I am especially interested in if you did find the hidden key because I need to keep in mind that I prefer to keep the mansion normal in all its ways.

Room 16498. In a previous post I added a picture of room 16698 to show the switch of the zapper beam and the moneybag so that returning is possible. But in room 16498 the easiest way of progress is by using the interval of the zapper beams to the next room at the right. Hup-hup-hup. Please let me know if it isn't obvious enough to do that while entering the dark room. Again because of the normal degree.

Enclosed you will find the promised zip 006 for further testing. For your appetite and to encourage you I added an extra secret in the first area.
:P ;)

Right now, my most important questions are:
- is finding the one-coloured hidden key, to be able to reach the exit gate, 'normal' enough?
- Are all the dark rooms fair enough? E.g. in room 16498, should the interval between the zappers be a bit longer? And what about the gaps in room 16101?
:-/

Perfect play now leads to 100 % secrets. Far too late I realized that the number of secrets has to be added at the mansion info, together with the right name of the mansion.
:-[

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Freddy wrote on 09.01.2023 at 19:21:11:

Lunch break at the office. Something blue = the blue area. I am especially interested in if you did find the hidden key because I need to keep in mind that I prefer to keep the mansion normal in all its ways. Room 16498. In a previous post I added a picture of room 16698 to show the switch of the zapper beam and the moneybag so that returning is possible. But in room 16498 the easiest way of progress is by using the interval of the zapper beams to the next room at the right. Hup-hup-hup. Please let me know if it isn't obvious enough to do that while entering the dark room. Again because of the normal degree.

There is no way to go anywhere from 16498.  At least my Jack cannot find a way.  Didn't find any hidden key in the blue area as I couldn't explore much.  The only way to get to the blue area (as far as I know) is with gold bricks turned on, which then block the way to the left part of the blue area.  I found the exit (again) but no purple key.  I never found an entrance to the room to the right of 16498.

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OK.  Found the way to 16498 via the room below.

My opinion:

Rather neat but not so obvious way.  The "walk" from the moving platform to the money bag is not easy but perhaps not very hard either.

But the interval between the zapper beams in 16498 is too short to be able to pull the levers IMO.

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Hello, brell. I am so happy that you got into the dark room from below. But you may be right that in room 16698 the access to the money bag needs to be more obvious, thus normal. I will do something about that and await your opinion.

Concerning the dark room 16498 itself it is indeed impossible to pull the levers on the bottom row and get away in time. But there is no need at all to that. Just take the shortest way to the lantern (while using the zapper intervals), return to the room and then find your way to the blue knot lever that helps you further. However, I will make the intervals a little bit longer, to make it more comfortable for what Jack really has to do.

No purple key yet. But did you find the second dark room in the same blue area?

Freddy wrote on 16.01.2023 at 00:51:52:

... I will do something about that and await your opinion. ...

I am thinking about:
- bringing down the moving platform with 2 tiles;
- changing the speed of the platform from 5 to 3;
- making the ledge of arrival a bit longer.

See pic. Especially for the speed of the platform.
;)

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Freddy wrote on 16.01.2023 at 00:51:52:

Hello, brell. I am so happy that you got into the dark room from below. But you may be right that in room 16698 the access to the money bag needs to be more obvious, thus normal. I will do something about that and await your opinion. Concerning the dark room 16498 itself it is indeed impossible to pull the levers on the bottom row and get away in time. But there is no need at all to that. Just take the shortest way to the lantern (while using the zapper intervals), return to the room and then find your way to the blue knot lever that helps you further. However, I will make the intervals a little bit longer, to make it more comfortable for what Jack really has to do. No purple key yet. But did you find the second dark room in the same blue area?

My opinion of the change in 16698:  Good change.

I figured out about the zappers.  Right now I am trying to solve the grey doors puzzle.  A very hard puzzle IMO but that's ok.
Haven't found any second dark room unless you are talking about the room to the right of 16498.

brell wrote on 16.01.2023 at 20:00:43:

...  Right now I am trying to solve the grey doors puzzle.  A very hard puzzle IMO but that's ok. Haven't found any second dark room unless you are talking about the room to the right of 16498.

While thinking about the changes for room 16698 I suddenly got the impression of knowing how you previously tried to handle this room. Did you try to jump from the moving platform to the edge of the upper floor where the zapper beam is and only then getting down?

Now that you know about the grey doors puzzle, you are right on track again! Automatically missing rooms or keys will be found.
[smiley=beer.gif]

I do hope that you still like the way that the mansion is developing. But feel free to say it when you have an other opinion.

Freddy wrote on 17.01.2023 at 01:49:35:

While thinking about the changes for room 16698 I suddenly I got the impression of knowing how you previously tried to handle this room. Did you try to jump from the moving platform to the edge of the upper floor where the zapper beam is and only then getting down?

No, I walked off the moving platform on the right spot.  Rather easy when you know how.

OK. Finished with 66% secrets.
Overall a good mansion more or less within the normal difficulty range. A bit tedious walking back with the purple key for the exit but I suppose that will change as the mansion expands.
No major flaws found.

Thx brell for the continuing support!


brell wrote on 20.01.2023 at 18:43:08:

OK. Finished with 66% secrets.

I did recheck that, just to know what you're probably missing. As previously said, I do want that everything is in balance. So in the soon coming zip 007 I added a small hint to make at least one of the missing secrets more normal. I hope.
:-/


brell wrote on 20.01.2023 at 18:43:08:

...  with the purple key for the exit ...

I am interested in how you did experience the 'limited backpack - shields - keys' issue.


brell wrote on 20.01.2023 at 18:43:08:

... A bit tedious walking ... for the exit but I suppose that will change as the mansion expands. ...

Indeed. (Like in the past I try to add an ugly temporary save and exit at each betatesting 'mansion', because it makes counting money and secrets easier.)

Freddy wrote on 21.01.2023 at 13:57:31:

brell wrote on 20.01.2023 at 18:43:08: ...  with the purple key for the exit ... I am interested in how you did experience the 'limited backpack - shields - keys' issue.

Just what an experienced player can expect from Freddy  8-)

Good morning everybody!

The first purple section feels like completed to me. Last changes are: raising the money with another $ 125, adding smoke to some of the candles, making the skull spider on the bottom floor in the skeletons room slower, rearranging the blue room with the jump to the money bag and adding a hint for a secret.

For those who are missing some secrets, please have a look at picture 1. If you haven't seen this spot before, then this will be your target.

Previously I said something about a transit room. Well, that changed into a 7 room area. One of those rooms you see on picture 2. A room with a lot of ways to go!
8-)

Meanwhile the blue area got a rather small extension as well. Picture 3 shows a room where Jack's life might be in danger.

To be continued in next post because of the attachments. Three seems to be the limit.

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Continuation.

And picture 4 shows a room with an important lever in the lower left corner that leads to what I now officially declare as the GRAND PRIX BRELL.
[smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]

Btw, Jack isn't only dozing. He has a real nightmare! Already in the second room of the mansion he has a major problem. When he entered the room he saw 7 scorpions fall into the pit, a problem that he even can't solve by offering al his lives.
:-X

The enclosed zip Double 0 Seven may be unfolded to a 32 rooms beta testing mansion. Perfect play brings Jack with € 4.725 to the exit gate. That means 1 extra life per 8 rooms. But there are some shields and saving points (plural).

Edited: in MM2 - BNW betatesting 007 there are 2 mistakes. In the exit room the temporary purple door is missing so Jack will finish with a purple key. And the number of secrets is wrong, so you may get over 100 %.
:o

Enjoy and I am looking forward to any remarks. And new beta testers. Is there any hope?
:-*

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Few points:

The scorpions in 17302 are rather hard but doable.

The saving points are well placed: One shortly before and another shortly after the scorpion room.

The skeleton in 16502 is hard to avoid.  I guess Jack should use the conveyor belt to avoid it but when I jump back it always gets me.  Yes, I was out of shields.

No purple key in 16502 anymore?  Anyway, the walk back to the new exit is even more tedious now.  But I guess that will change.

brell wrote on 22.01.2023 at 18:58:00:

... The scorpions in 17302 are rather hard but doable. ...

You are right. I don't have enough time right now to do it in a proper way, but I already made a slight change. Let me know if it makes enough difference.


brell wrote on 22.01.2023 at 18:58:00:

... The skeleton in 16502 is hard to avoid. ...

Here I have to disagree. It took me quite a time to figure out about how to make it safe and normal. Therefor my best suggestion is: try it again. Make sure that Jack only jumps from the conveyor belt to the bottom floor in the direction where he has the profit of the momentum of it.


brell wrote on 22.01.2023 at 18:58:00:

... No purple key in 16502 anymore?  ...

I moved it to an other interesting spot, hoping that it would be more normal.
:-/

So:
- a change in room 17302;
- an added purple door in the exit room (to make sure that you find the purple key)
    ;)
- the right mansion name and amount of secrets.

You all find it in version 008.

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The scorpion room is much better now.  You used the same "feature" in a room in the blue (normal) version of MM&M  ;)

The skeleton is easier now when you know how to do it.  Sorry, my bad.

Found the purple key but again the walk back to the exit is tedious.  I know you are not very keen on using MM2 features but how about a "lift" from the purple key room to the exit room?

One more thing:  You name the betatesting version with ascending numbers (001 to 008 as of now).  This has the annoying side effect that the betatester(s) cannot use saving points from 007 in 008 and has always to start from the beginning.

Thanks again for your reply.


brell wrote on 24.01.2023 at 17:37:50:

Found the purple key but again the walk back to the exit is tedious.  I know you are not very keen on using MM2 features but how about a "lift" from the purple key room to the exit room?

You are right that I do hesitate with MM2-features but that is because I don't have the skills for that. Sooner or later I will introduce them in this mansion. Carefully.
Concerning the way back from the purple key to the exit you need to know these things:
- although the exit is temporarely it deserves a better handling than what I do;
- the purple door near the exit is, of course, also only there to be able to use the key;
- it is also only 'now' that getting the purple key is the last activity before leaving the mansion;
- creating a shortcut after picking up the purple key is an interesting idea BUT I have to take care with the gold/silver-issue (not obvious at all but it IS possible to walk back through the opened green and blue doors, pull the lever with the green knot to make the blocks silver and only then making use of the shortcut.)
Since yesterday evening I have an idea (that is different than a press button forcing the blocks to reverse = gold). Now I still need some time to figure out if it is useful.


brell wrote on 24.01.2023 at 17:37:50:

One more thing:  You name the betatesting version with ascending numbers (001 to 008 as of now).  This has the annoying side effect that the betatester(s) cannot use saving points from 007 in 008 and has always to start from the beginning.

:-[ :o
What a horrible mistake. Never thought a second about this issue, although I should have known better (from the past). Sorry about that. I will look for a solution.

Freddy wrote on 25.01.2023 at 19:33:06:

brell wrote on 24.01.2023 at 17:37:50: Found the purple key but again the walk back to the exit is tedious. ... how about a "lift" from the purple key room to the exit room? ... creating a shortcut after picking up the purple key is an interesting idea ... Since yesterday evening I have an idea ...

Early this morning I made these changes in my own working-BNW.
1. I rearranged the lower left corner of the room with all the same-coloured keys and doors. Jack is now forced to leave the room with a one-way ladder down to the upper middle room of the transit zone.
2. In the upper right orange-brown room I found a spot where I could add the temporary exit. One that may stay there for a rather long time, because it is in a good central position of the blue area around the transit zone.

These small operations made the road to the exit many rooms shorter than before. To make it even less tedious I am thinking about adding extra MM2-enemies.
:-?

After many hours 'work' in previous weekend I am able to add an update of the
MM2 - BNW betatesting mansion.

The beta-BNW will not change of name anymore and the existing 3 save pedestals will stay fixed. If you want to, you may change the current filenames of your saves at Library / Midnight Mansion 2 / Saved Games / ... An other possibility is replay the purple section again, but why should you want to do that?

I did minor changes in that area with 2 targets:
- changing the tough double snake jumps into more 'normal' single ones at the 6 trap doors room and in the skeletons room;
- improving the flow by changing the speed of the bird in room 16100 and both spiders in the skeletons rooms.

At the end of the purple section (plus the 2 gold coins room) there is the unchanged reward of $ 3.000.

The transit zone contains 6 rooms and became a grown up. Image 1 shows what you may expect from that area: nearly everything from MM1 ! (There were also a few ghosts installed during the process, but I did remove them because they didn't fit with the other stuff.) Notice the coming back Elisabeth who is 'guarding' the save point. When you save over there, she reappears below your feet!! And as promised, in one of the other rooms you'll find the exit gate.

:exclamation
IMPORTANT MESSAGE for testing the blue area surrounding the transit zone. Please start in the upper right corner with opening the red door.

The concept of the blue area is based on a combination of opening coloured doors and the toggling of gold/silver blocks. It took me hours to figure out about how to realize this in practice. It's clear that the blue area isn't finished yet.

Several rooms received changes, in the first place to be playable, but also concerning the normal level and the flow. The blue area starting with a yellow door is now nearly completely one way, to avoid boring backtracking. In the purple key room the birds on the bottom floor got better spread and a higher speed. Etc.

Perfect play leads to $ 6.050 . On the image you may see that I lost 2 lives and btw also all shields ...
>:( :( :-? :o :-[ :'( ;)

As always I have an open mind for all remarks.

---

Freddy wrote on 30.01.2023 at 19:37:48:

I did minor changes in that area with 2 targets: - changing the tough double snake jumps into more 'normal' single ones at the 6 trap doors room and in the skeletons room;

I don't find it any easier but I like it better this way.


Freddy wrote on 30.01.2023 at 19:37:48:

The transit zone contains 6 rooms and became a grown up. Image 1 shows what you may expect from that area: nearly everything from MM1 ! (There were also a few ghosts installed during the process, but I did remove them because they didn't fit with the other stuff.) Notice the coming back Elisabeth who is 'guarding' the save point. When you save over there, she reappears below your feet!! And as promised, in one of the other rooms you'll find the exit gate.

I like the transit zone but ...


Freddy wrote on 30.01.2023 at 19:37:48:

IMPORTANT MESSAGE for testing the blue area surrounding the transit zone. Please start in the upper right corner with opening the red door.

How should the player know that he is supposed to use the multicolor key in that room?  What happens if he uses it somewhere else?


Freddy wrote on 30.01.2023 at 19:37:48:

Perfect play leads to $ 6.050 . On the image you may see that I lost 2 lives and btw also all shields ...

To me it seems that the mansion is slowly evolving from "normal" to "hard".  BTW have you reduced the number of shields from older versions?
I lost all my lives before getting the yellow key.  I'll try again later and of course check what happens if I use the multicolor key elsewhere.

brell wrote on 31.01.2023 at 20:41:07:

I don't find it any easier but I like it better this way.

In both cases Jack first has to jump to the left and then back to the right. At the left side I added a brick with the hope that the jump back would be easier. No?
:-/


brell wrote on 31.01.2023 at 20:41:07:

I like the transit zone but ... How should the player know that he is supposed to use the multicolor key in that room?  What happens if he uses it somewhere else?

In the first place I am happy that you like the orange-brown area, because I know it gives a maze feeling and not everybody likes that. But in this case the maze is functional and above that I tried to make it as small as possible and hopefully also with enough to do. Now, if my concept for the blue surrounding sector is right, future will show you that it doesn't matter which 'gate' Jack chooses first.


brell wrote on 31.01.2023 at 20:41:07:

To me it seems that the mansion is slowly evolving from "normal" to "hard".  BTW have you reduced the number of shields from older versions? I lost all my lives before getting the yellow key.  I'll try again later and of course check what happens if I use the multicolor key elsewhere.

You may absolutely be right, because I lost all shields myself and 2 lives. It is interesting work for me not to search for the edges of what is possible, but to get things 'normal'. I like this challenge. If you have peticular places in mind that are too hard, please yell. Without the game and builder nearby I am thinking of places where Jack may 'hurt' his head by touching a critter on the next floor above him.

Besides that you noticed well that there are less shields than before. Previously there was one in each room. Now there are only three of them left. I did remove them (and the ghosts) because I needed place for the maps, the exit and a few inevitable torches near the middle save pedestal.

Good luck with your new attempt(s)!

OK. Used the multicolored key in the other blue room at the far left end of the mansion.  Never found a key for the red door on the other far right end.

Got the yellow key and finished the purple key quest.

There are no special remarks now, just that I find some rooms/areas close to hard.

Missed an obvious gold coin in the room with two scorpions, one spider and an interesting ladderjump.

brell wrote on 04.02.2023 at 21:36:35:

... Used the multicolored key in the other blue room at the far left end of the mansion.  Never found a key for the red door on the other far right end. ... There are no special remarks now, just that I find some rooms/areas close to hard. ... Missed an obvious gold coin in the room with two scorpions, one spider and an interesting ladderjump.

1. That is why I 'ordered' you to start in that specific gate that leads to the red door.
;)

2. Yesterday I was very busy with downgrading things. Soon I post the upgrade with the downgrades.
8-)

3. Yes yes: the room with gold blocks, two candles and three vines.
;D
That is one of the many rooms that is already changed right. The jump from the left candle to the right is normal now, the upper coin is in a much easier position and a third scorpion is re-added, without making it hard I hope. Previously there was no middle vine what made it very hard.
:o

---

Enclosed is version 010 of 'MM2 - BNW betatesting'.
Edited: for a currently unknown reason I can't upload this version with this post. It keeps on adding an older version. Pfff. I'll try to do it with a seperate post.

What did change?

PURPLE AREA
16300 -> removed the most annoying bird of the two
16301 -> added a background / made three jumps easier
15701 -> moved the lever to a safer place
16500 -> made the room purple

TRANSIT ZONE 1
Completely redesigned (see image) / three maps to show you the way / all gates open / four shields / less and more normal enemies / some money / exposing gold-silver in all six rooms
I still have my doubts about:
- the necessity of Elizabeth at the middle save pedestal
- the red kite in the middle upper room (too hard?)

BLUE AREA (with only one part finished)
I chose gate number 9 and opened a yellow door
17099 -> expansion
16698 -> finalized
17302 -> rearranged
17303 -> rearranged
17101 -> added a 4th saving point
In 16498 I detected that when Jack dies after pulling the lever with the green knot, lucky me, he reappears in the lower right (!) corner and is able to continue.

TRANSIT ZONE 2
17301 -> added / introducing a first MM2-enemy
;)

MONEY
Perfect play leads to $ 13.350 (and no loss of six lives like in my case)

SECRETS
A lot to say about ...
:-X

---

Posting the correct zip-file for the 10th version of MM2 - BNW betatesting.

Or not ???   :o  Is it possible that it is the new file, but with the old name? Realy? The size (282 kb) is the size of version 10, not of version 9 ...

---

The zip file downloaded as MM2-BNW_betatesting and opened my save correctly.  However, since you made some changes in the first area, i decided to begin at the beginning once again.

I have already:
Finished the purple section.  Liked the changes

Finished transit zone I, using the multicolor key on the blue door in the scorpions room, got the yellow key and finished the section where you get the purple key.  Now I am going to use that key to get a red key (if I rememeber correctly) and go on from there, checking whether I can get all the keys in the blue rooms surrounding the transit zone I.

After that I will try another approach, beginning by going down the long ladder from the first transit zone room and use the multicolor key down there and see where that leads me.

This will take some time.

Enemies in transit zone I are easier now but not too easy.

More rapport later.

OK, used the purple key to get the red key in #17000 but:

If I use the purple key in 17000 and get the red key, then I have to go back (backtrack) all the way to 16498 to change back to gold bricks.  But I cannot go back from 16498, the only way is to move on back to 16499 and from there to 16501 but to do that I have to change back to silver bricks.  Not quite a Jack-stuck but …
I am going to try the long ladder down to #17000 next.

16100 What if Jack does not pull the right lever?  He will have a lot of baktracking

16301 Background good and in consistence with the rooms above.  Jump changes good

17101 Tried a ladderjump (silver bricks off) but Jack died.  Should have noticed it was 7 bricks high.

16499 Why is the left trapdoor needed?

16900 Shield is out of reach

16899 It is possible to reach the upper right ladder with gold bricks on, using a squirrel jump

16901 Elizabeth is very annoying

Thanks, brell !

I will have a lot to do.  [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

For now I think I can assure you that your Jack is following an exhausting route. There is an alternative ...
:-X

brell wrote on 09.02.2023 at 20:20:02:

16100 What if Jack does not pull the right lever?  He will have a lot of baktracking 16301 Background good and in consistence with the rooms above.  Jump changes good 17101 Tried a ladderjump (silver bricks off) but Jack died.  Should have noticed it was 7 bricks high. 16499 Why is the left trapdoor needed? 16900 Shield is out of reach 16899 It is possible to reach the upper right ladder with gold bricks on, using a squirrel jump 16901 Elizabeth is very annoying

16100 If Midnight Mansion was Soccer then the VAR would say: clear error by the gamer.
;)
Two levers, each for one of the grey doors. But the backtracking-penalty is not in proportion to the mistake, so I fixed it. See image 1. And will be seen in next update.
8-)

17101 That was supposed to be. No passing through with the silver blocks off.

16499 Oops. Was a leftover from the start of the designing. And since then I always pulled the lever, opened the trap door and jumped over the gap!?!!?
Fixed. See image 2.

16900 Sorry, it is within reach.

16899 I am grateful for reporting this issue. Fixed, but I prefer to make a better change as soon as I have enough time to do that.

16901 Elizabeth changed of gender! See image 3. You may call her/him Arthur. While Elizabeth was not really dangerous, she was indeed disturbing in a stubborn way. Arthur is more energetic and one to deal with. But only once!
8-)


brell wrote on 09.02.2023 at 20:20:02:

OK, used the purple key to get the red key in #17000 but: If I use the purple key in 17000 and get the red key, then I have to go back (backtrack) all the way to 16498 to change back to gold bricks.  But I cannot go back from 16498, the only way is to move on back to 16499 and from there to 16501 but to do that I have to change back to silver bricks.  Not quite a Jack-stuck but … I am going to try the long ladder down to #17000 next.

My first reaction may be wrong. I can't know yet. It is best if you may clarify something for me. There is no room 17000. So in which rooms did you use the purple and tried to use the red key?

---

Freddy wrote on 05.02.2023 at 20:21:18:

... In 16498 I detected that when Jack dies after pulling the lever with the green knot, lucky me, he reappears in the lower right (!) corner and is able to continue. ...

Last night I was suddenly very worried about this dark room, because I realized that if you know the way in there, it is possible to struggle through this room all in the dark. And then, when Jack changes the blocks from silver into gold and afterwards dies ... he reappears in the lower LEFT corner.

But lucky me it also didn't matter. Jack may continue as always.
:)

Please have a look at the attachment about attachments.
;D

My yesterday evening's post had three attached pictures. On my computer the filenames were: Afbeelding 1, Afbeelding 2 and Afbeelding 3. That means that all added underscores en numbers were made by the application from our boards.

My own logica tells me that it may have to do with previous posted files that has the same filenames.

And that probably explains the 'look' of the recently posted zipfile. Let's hope that it will never give problems with e.g. savings.

---

Freddy wrote on 10.02.2023 at 03:17:46:

brell wrote on 09.02.2023 at 20:20:02: OK, used the purple key to get the red key in #17000 but: If I use the purple key in 17000 and get the red key, then I have to go back (backtrack) all the way to 16498 to change back to gold bricks.  But I cannot go back from 16498, the only way is to move on back to 16499 and from there to 16501 but to do that I have to change back to silver bricks.  Not quite a Jack-stuck but … I am going to try the long ladder down to #17000 next. My first reaction may be wrong. I can't know yet. It is best if you may clarify something for me. There is no room 17000. So in which rooms did you use the purple and tried to use the red key?

Sorry, I meant room 17100.

In the first attempt after the first save I used the rainbow key on the blue door in the scorpion room and then, after getting the purple key, I used it in room 17100 to get the red key.  This approach leads to a lot of backtracking as the silver bricks are on.  The only way I see is to go down from room 17101 and take the "express" to the start/exit room and go from there to room 11100 (I think) to change to gold bricks again.  But by then Jack will not have any key left.
BTW it is possible to use a bottom ladderjump in 17100 to get over the gold bricks. Is that intended?

In my second attempt I took the long ladder from 15100 down to 17100 and used the rainbow key to get the blue key.  Then I used the transit zone 1 to exchange as many keys as possible, ending with another blue key.  Only then I opened the door in the scorpions room and got the yellow key in the next room to the right (btw the 4 scorpions are too hard to avoid without any shields).  Then I went for the purple key in #15102, finished the transit section and finally went down for the "express" back to "square one".  This is IMO a much better approach but how is the player to know that beforehand?

brell wrote on 10.02.2023 at 20:12:58:

... I used the rainbow key on the blue door in the scorpion room and then, after getting the purple key, I used it in room 17100 to get the red key.  This approach leads to a lot of backtracking as the silver bricks are on.  ... ... In my second attempt I took the long ladder from 15100 down to 17100 and used the rainbow key to get the blue key.  Then I used the transit zone 1 to exchange as many keys as possible, ending with another blue key.  Only then I opened the door in the scorpions room and got the yellow key in the next room to the right ... ... Then I went for the purple key in #15102, finished the transit section and finally went down for the "express" back to "square one".  This is IMO a much better approach but how is the player to know that beforehand?

Since yesterday I am busy with an investigation in both 'my BNW' and 'beta version 010'. It will take some time to give accurate answers.


brell wrote on 10.02.2023 at 20:12:58:

BTW it is possible to use a bottom ladderjump in 17100 to get over the gold bricks. Is that intended?

Thanks for reporting. Of course all those small temporary constructions are supposed to block the road. I didn't have to fix this because room 17100 already got a more finished look. See image.


brell wrote on 10.02.2023 at 20:12:58:

... (btw the 4 scorpions are too hard to avoid without any shields).  ...

This room is based on a memory. I remembered a very hard room from a custom mansion and I wanted to figure out if it was possible to use the idea while making a smooth normal version of it. Somehow I think I managed it. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the fact that a shield or even a life gets lost. But there is a major BUT !

Because you did put my attention to this room I abruptly saw that once Jack moves down the floors there is no way back!! That means that in the worst case all four scorpions await Jack in the pit and that, indeed, costs too many shields (lives). The other picture shows how I did fix it.

---

Hello again, brell

Enclosed I send you a zip file of a user movie. After unzipping you may add it to:
Midnight Mansion 2 / User Movies / brell (or what it may be).

Are you able to watch my Hollywoodproof movie (maybe after changing the filename)?
;)

The movie starts after I made my first save in the most recent version of the mansion that you have right now. Notice that I did a quick run through the purple section, only to have that save. From there I started to reconstruct your first attempt.

On the road please ignore the 2nd purple key that suddenly appears. That is an unwanted leftover from the bottom ladder jump check in that room.

As always I start with 'cleaning up' the transit zone: opening all (possible) grey doors, collecting money and shields and opening maps. You will not see, but hear (!!!) when I had a look at the maps.

Room numbers can't be seen as well, but I am sure you will recognize room 16703 where silver blocks interrupt your way to the red door.

Now backtracking was never meant to be the solution, but of course I have to take in consideration that one may try to do that.  In the first place to be sure that there are no Jack stucks. It will be hard work to figure out that this is not the case.

The concept of the transit zone 1 in combination with the blue area is that the maps in TZ 1 will show all seven adjacent blue rooms. I hope that they give enough inspiration for exploring new ways in the place of doing backtracking.
:-/

In the beta version 010 two of the seven weren't shown yet. That is not good! It was wrong to hope that, now all gates are open, you were going to do random exploring.
:-[

The movie continues with checking the two gates to the room right of lower right room of TZ 1.

Do I consider a well posted sign? I do. But at the same time I was eager to make a mansion without any. We'll see.

---

The file does not work.  I cannot open it in MM2.  It wants to open in MM1 but I do not have the reg. code.

OK. I put the file in the Custom mansion folder in MM2 as instructed in the documentation for the game.  Then I try to open the movie and get this message, see attachment.

---

Did you try to rename the movie file by using exact the same name as the one of the beta mansion file. The one with the underscore etc. ?

Freddy wrote on 11.02.2023 at 16:54:53:

... The concept of the transit zone 1 in combination with the blue area is that the maps in TZ 1 will show all seven adjacent blue rooms.  ...

The attached image shows you what, from the next version of BNW-beta on, you may see after getting all 3 maps in transit zone 1.

---

Freddy wrote on 11.02.2023 at 22:00:56:

Did you try to rename the movie file by using exact the same name as the one of the beta mansion file. The one with the underscore etc. ?

Yes, doesn't work.  The movie file wants to have the 010 version of the mansion file.

Here is the zip. I am curious if it will work.

---

Freddy wrote on 12.02.2023 at 02:57:21:

Here is the zip. I am curious if it will work.

OK, it worked - but I had to keep 010 in the end of the mansion file for the movie to work.
I saw you took the approach to get the yellow key next to the scorpion room, then you went for the purple key and finally used it to get the red key.  But now the silver bricks are on and as far as I know there is a lot of backtracking to do to change back to gold blocks.

But, according to your screenshots you have made some changes so perhaps there is no more backtracking?  I going to try the 010 version, starting again at the first save and go for the same yellow key as you did.  I'll let you know later how it goes.

... and this is what I get, see attachment.

It is because of the running numbers.  The game does not recognise the mansion file if I remove the number (010 in this case) and because my save was made with an earlier version it is no good to try to change the name of the save file.

---

After getting the purple key I go down as „instructed“ in the movie and use that key to get a red key in 17100. The only place to use it is in room 16704 (as far as I could see) where I get a green key, which I will use in the same room (17100) where I got the red key.  There is also the possibility to use the green key in another room far left but that requires a squirrel jump which I think is not intended and will be fixed.
Now I have a blue key which can only be used in room 17101 to get a yellow key which will be used in 16904 to get a purple key.  Next in line is room 17099 for a red key which is used in 16503 for a green key.
Finally I get a blue key in 16697.

The only flaw I can see is the possibility of a squirrel jump in 16899 with the gold bricks on, thus getting the key in 16697 before the blue key in 17100.  I don’t know yet whether that would cause any complications. Actually I don't think so as the player can always go down to the fourth save and on from there with a key of any color.

But now the gold bricks are on so I will have to find a place to change back to silver before going to the fourth save.

Finished with only 60% secrets.

Lunch time = MMF time.

The user movies tool seems to be created for personal use only. Sharing them feels far to complex.
:'(

Previous weekend I 'worked' many hours at the mansion. But at the end I couldn't post an update because I noticed at least one mistake in a new complicated room that leaded to a JS in the TZ1. I prefer to fix that first. Meanwhile I will check everything you mentioned (ladder jump over blocks is already fixed) and then I end with a thorough control of the whole blue area.

The blue area is still not finished, but the expanding now has to wait till I am sure that everything that is in the mansion right now, works like it has to be.

I will also have a look to the secrets. Maybe I can figure out which are to subtle hinted.
;)

OK.  Found room 17299 and the way to the room to the left of the starting room so I am up to 80% secrets.

In 17299,  if Jack dies with silver blocks on he reappears in the top left corner and has to backtrack a lot to change back to gold blocks.  See attachment.  Here my Jack used the lever at the bottom to change to silver blocks and the skullspider fell down and killed him.

Tried again and found room 17103.  Not obvious IMO.  I guess I have 100% secrets now?

---

Thanks for reporting!

I think (= hope) that the fixing will be easy. At the right side I am going to remove the silver blocks top floor and the ladder. The blocks will be replaced by a solid floor and the ladder with a pole.

That means gold when entering ànd leaving the room. And the possibility to go down again to a lever.

Was the entrance of this room hinted enough?

Btw, only when the blue area is finished, in the meaning of not growing anymore, I will finalize the amount of money and shields. Maps should have their info earlier.

Good morning everybody! A few minutes ago I started the preparations for version 011 of the beta version for Brave New World. And I am as happy as can be.

I take notes on the boards while working.

16100 This purple room got changes to avoid very large backtracking when Jack should forget to pull the lever for the grey door in the upper left corner.

16700 Info from the map changed.

16701 Speed of the red kite got reduced. Added a lever.

16702 Corrected the bricks around the gold/silver blocks. And map info changed.

16900 I replaced the annoying slow skull spider by a snake. Added an extra ladder in the lower right corner.

16901 Map info changed. Elizabeth is, as previously announced, gone. And replaced by an Arthur puzzle. Does this feel like an improvement?

16902 Speed of the red kite is reduced.

BLUE AREA
1. Maps don't have information yet.
2. Amount of money and shields are for later, but feel free to do suggestions.
I am working clockwise and starting in the upper right corner.

16703 Remastered.

16903 Changed.

17102 Added gold/silver info blocks.

17103 Added skull spiders and money.

17101 Left route changed. At the right the way down is not one way any more so if you don't have a key you are able to return.

17501 Is (temporary?!) also two-way.

17100 See image. This is the complicated room that creates multiple problems that have to be solved.

17299 Solved the silver blocks issue that leaded to a lot of backtracking. As revenge I added a snake.
;)

16697 Remastered. See image.

16499 Here I did remove a trap door and belonging lever that both were left overs from earlier designing.
I also added bricks under the lever with the green knot to make Jack's jump down more comfortable (see picture). But this has a consequence! At the moment of pulling the lever with the red knot the skull spider may be at the left candle, the right candle or ... on the trap door that gets opened. In that case the skull spider goes down and gets 'frozen' on that brick at the right of Jack. First I thought of adding a shield to 'solve' that problem, but I never liked the idea of forced exchanges with shields to be able to continue. But there is a playing solution for this issue: re-entering the room and the skull spider always reappears on the floor where it was placed in the builder. It is not a perfect situation and that is why I am interested in your opinion, knowing that there is still the option to remove the added bricks again.

The red stuff is for after the break.

---

Freddy wrote on 17.02.2023 at 18:28:49:

Thanks for reporting! I think (= hope) that the fixing will be easy. At the right side I am going to remove the silver blocks top floor and the ladder. The blocks will be replaced by a solid floor and the ladder with a pole. That means gold when entering ànd leaving the room. And the possibility to go down again to a lever. Was the entrance of this room hinted enough?

Yes, obvious when you think of it.

And helped me finding 17103  ;)

Freddy wrote on 18.02.2023 at 16:45:57:

16499 Here I did remove a trap door and belonging lever that both were left overs from earlier designing. I also added bricks under the lever with the green knot to make Jack's jump down more comfortable (see picture). But this has a consequence! At the moment of pulling the lever with the red knot the skull spider may be at the left candle, the right candle or ... on the trap door that gets opened. In that case the skull spider goes down and gets 'frozen' on that brick at the right of Jack. First I thought of adding a shield to 'solve' that problem, but I never liked the idea of forced exchanges with shields to be able to continue. But there is a playing solution for this issue: re-entering the room and the skull spider always reappears on the floor where it was placed in the builder. It is not a perfect situation and that is why I am interested in your opinion, knowing that there is still the option to remove the added bricks again.

The player can of course leave and re-enter the room to fix this but the simple thing to do is to remove these extra bricks.

brell wrote on 18.02.2023 at 19:33:52:

The player can of course leave and re-enter the room to fix this but the simple thing to do is to remove these extra bricks.

After the break I had fresh inspiration. I did force the skull spider to stay on the right solid floor. It feels like the best way to offer smooth normal play.

Meanwhile I did 'revisit' room 17100 and realized something that seems to work. It took six
:exclamation
extra levers, shortening the ladder at the right, adding and removing gold and silver, an extra floor in the upper right corner. And invisible stuff (e.g. in the rooms above and below).
8-)

Now I am ready to do gamma testing
;)
starting from the first saving point. On February the 10th for the very first (and last) time I succeeded in reaching the pedestal with a perfect score: all money, no lives lost, the six secrets and finally also all four shields. Sooner or later it felt necessary to do that, because I need to be sure that Jack doesn't get in problems with too many shields.

I do hope to post an update soon.

---

brell wrote on 16.02.2023 at 20:36:27:

... Tried again and found room 17103.  Not obvious IMO.  I guess I have 100% secrets now?

Sorry, brell. I missed this remark till now. You are right that this is too difficult for a 'normal' mansion. In the next update you may see two hints in the room to the left. Let me now if I also need to add something in the room with the save point as well.

In version 10 were 10 secrets. Does this help for your counting? Btw, in version 11 there will be 11.
8-)

The 11th version of BNW for betatesting is ready. I have the feeling that the structure, not the size, of the blue area is ready. Twice my Jack wandered and jumped through transit zone 1 and that blue area. As far as I know, after every part of the blue area, Jack has always one and only one choice. Besides early going down to transit zone 2.

There is $ 16.000 to gather and 12 secrets. Enjoy!
[smiley=beer.gif]

---

First of all:  This version opened my saves correctly.

Remarks:

16503 Jack can use his rainbow key in this room - will it lead to complications later?

16703 Jack can change from gold to silver here - will it lead to complications later?  Also, later, when Jack arrives this room from the bottom he can, instead of going to the room to the right, change course and change the blocks.

16904 Jack can use his rainbow key in this room - will it lead to complications later?

17300 Is Jack supposed to be able to jump from the conveyor belt all the way to the right?  Because my Jack surely cannot.  A bit too tempting suicide jump IMO.

17100 Jack can turn some moving platforms but if he leaves the room and returns they have stopped. A neat but rather difficult route from the uppermost golden bricks to the gold brick just above the short ladder via the moving platform.

17301 What happens if Jack jumps from the short ladder without a blue (or rainbow) key?

16503 Possible JS if Jack goes down to the lowest left with the grey door closed. Overall difficulty of this room perhaps too much?  The secret exit is nice.

Finished with 100% secrets but only €  ;) 15900

Maybe I'll try using the rainbow key on other doors later and see what happens.

brell wrote on 21.02.2023 at 21:50:32:

16703 Jack can change from gold to silver here - will it lead to complications later?

May I reformulate your question: are there complications when changing blocks to silver without immediate continuing to the room above and using the rainbow key? I don't think/hope so.
This is what I am going to do. In TZ1 I previously used the left saving point after the purple area (mark = $ 3.000) and the right saving point as second after full cleaning TZ1 and without entering any blue room. I will restart from that 2nd save, go first of all to room 16703 where I only change the blocks into silver. Then I will leave TZ1 at the bottom left of the middle save (to open the blue door in room 17101).
Future will tell what is going to happen.
:-/

Meanwhile I will try to find answers on your questions. And ideas to fix mistakes!  :)

My Jack went from save 2 to 16703 (changing gold to silver), to 17101 (to get a yellow key), to 16903 (to collect a purple key), to 17099 (to find a red key) and back to 16703 with smooth continuing play by opening the red door in 16503.


brell wrote on 21.02.2023 at 21:50:32:

16503 Jack can use his rainbow key in this room - will it lead to complications later?

It is not supposed to be. In contrary. The rainbow key is supposed to be fitting on all possible doors that Jack encounters while still be able to visit all rooms and to get all prices.


brell wrote on 21.02.2023 at 21:50:32:

16703 Also, later, when Jack arrives this room from the bottom he can, instead of going to the room to the right, change course and change the blocks.

I clearly missed the fact that Jack is able to do easy jumps/falls to the bottom floor and then pull the only lever in the room. In all cases (gold or silver blocks AND without or with any key) the only consequence is that Jack can't immediately go back to the middle floor and has to leave the room at the left. Going back to the middle floor to continue through the grey door is a small detour in TZ1.


brell wrote on 21.02.2023 at 21:50:32:

16904 Jack can use his rainbow key in this room - will it lead to complications later?

No.


brell wrote on 21.02.2023 at 21:50:32:

17300 Is Jack supposed to be able to jump from the conveyor belt all the way to the right?

Oh no, not at all!
:o
But you are, as always, on the alert for these unkind invitations. Do you think that changing the conveyor belt direction is good enough to stop suicidal ideas?


brell wrote on 21.02.2023 at 21:50:32:

17100 Jack can turn some moving platforms but if he leaves the room and returns they have stopped. A neat but rather difficult route from the uppermost golden bricks to the gold brick just above the short ladder via the moving platform.

I knew that the gold path is tougher than the silver one. This room started with an interesting idea (two paths in gold/silver that cross each other) and resulted in a very complicated design. When I find time I have a closer look to both issues in this room.


brell wrote on 21.02.2023 at 21:50:32:

17301 What happens if Jack jumps from the short ladder without a blue (or rainbow) key?

A half JS, isn't it?
:-[
To be fixed.


brell wrote on 21.02.2023 at 21:50:32:

16503 Possible JS if Jack goes down to the lowest left with the grey door closed. Overall difficulty of this room perhaps too much?  The secret exit is nice.

Again I missed a jump/fall down. Absolutely to be fixed.
Thanks for the compliments. In Brave New World one of my missions still is to expose other ways of hinting secrets.


brell wrote on 21.02.2023 at 21:50:32:

Finished with 100% secrets but only €  ;) 15900

Believe it or not, but I think I know where you missed the missing $ 100. Because I missed $ 100 as well on my first walk through version 11. See image.
8-)

Thanks for all your input, brell. I am very grateful for that.

---

Betaversion 012 is ready and enclosed.

Take a warm bath [smiley=bath.gif] and stretch your shoulders, neck and fingers!

Mistakes got fixed.
Backgrounds, money, shields, maps (with information), saves, rooms and secrets were moved, removed or added.
Even the temporary express road to the exit got a little bit of polish.
:)

Officially there are now 76 rooms. That means including the express road.
And $ 19.000 to be found.

All beta testers ;) are supposed to read all the signs because the text could have changed. :P

Now just a brief word about room 16503 to show how designing sometimes gets 'progress'. In the lower left corner a Jack stuck was reported. Before the horizontal zapper beam was there, Jack was able to fall/jump to the bottom floor with the grey door (still) closed.

While I fixed that with the beam I noticed that there was a problem in the upper left corner. When Jack arrived at the gold coin with the grey door at the right still closed, progress was difficult. Jack had to do a difficult jump down to the lever while both the ghost platform and the eye ball are away. I did change that by making the gap and the ghost platform wider. This solution is also interesting because, by accident, progress is pretty uncommon. Jumping to the right is impossible, so the use of the platform is needed. But that is only possible on a moment that the platform appears and the eye ball is still somewhere below. Once Jack is at the right he has an easily drop down to do.

Room finished? Not at all. The image shows a before not detected half Jack stuck. Jack, probably due to the weight of the five shields in his backpack, stumbled into the gap and within seconds lost three of his shields to an eye ball and two skull spiders. And no way out because of the zapper beams.
:o :-?
I did fix it in the same way as the gap in the lower left corner.

I do hope you still enjoy testing this mansion and I am looking forward to any kind of remarks or questions.

---

One question:  Do the beta testers need to replay all the TZ1 from the first save?

Or can they use a save AFTER they've got the purple key?

For my own testing comfort I made two saves in transport zone 1. The first one I made, and I assume you did the same, at the left immediately after coming down from the purple area and before picking up anything. That gives exactly $ 3.000.

Because, and only because of the testings, I made a second save at the right pedestal after picking up the three maps, some shields and all money (new total is exactly $ 4.000). Try to do that as well. It is one single limited effort from save 1 to 2. Do not forget the moneybag above and the gold coin below that second save point. But do not enter any room outside the transit zone 1, not even briefly, e.g. to be able to check the hopefully proper working of the maps.

From there you have a perfect base to start the discovery of the blue area wherever you want to. So, please, do it this way and replace your previous second save. You will 'see' much more 'things' when you frequently change your starting gate and will also have more playing fun. But, as already mentioned for TZ1, you will also be in better circumstances to check all maps in the blue area. Do they give too much or too less information. While the maps in TZ1 showed gold/silver info, they now show coulored doors. Or the positions of the extra saving points, shields ...

My choice to use the right pedestal for my second save wasn't at random. My last efforts in TZ1 were skipping that save point and leaving money bag and coin where there were (to avoid the save question interruptions), cleaning up the far left lower part of TZ1 and only in the return to the right I completed the last $ 150 and saved. Before that, I already knew that I wanted to be at the right because thanks to you 'all beta testers' I left TZ1 at the gate to room 16703 where I changed gold into silver and could continue with opening the red door in room 16704 which room was very nearby. And third reason was that I knew that after visiting the half of the blue area, the middle saving pedestal was going to be on my way.

But don't let my choice interfere with where you like to continue.

Just something that came up in my mind.

In the blue area I used several press buttons to change gold/silver. These buttons are important and the use of it obliged. Therefor I placed them all in a way that it is inevitable to use them before or together with a new key for further progress.

There are also press buttons with other functions e.g. with a connection to a secret. That is why they sometimes need to be covered.

My idea is now to change the gold/silver buttons with green ones, the same colour of the knots of the levers with the same function. Since there is no reason at all to hide them.
:-/

Are you talking about changing from buttons to levers?  But what if Jack forgets to pull the lever?  Not sure it is a good idea.

16503 What happens if jack uses his multicolor key in this room?

Now I am in room 16703 with one red key.  See picture 8.  I know there is a red door in the room to the right and another one in the room above.  Now Jack can access both rooms from this position.  Which shoud it be?  As I presume it is not intended (and will be fixed) that Jack can go to the room above from this position I will open the red door in the room to the right.
Decisions, decisions.  The player cannot know which door to open first. and whether opening this or that door first will lead to complications later.

16905 is very difficult if you don’t have any shields left.
17300 Difficult avoiding the fish skeletons without any shields
17101 Should the jump back be more obvious or at least be worth a secret?  Picture 9
16503 Avoiding the leftmost eyeball is almost impossible.  Jack-stuck in the lowest left corner still possible.
Reaching the floorbutton and the silver coin to the right is very hard without any shields.
17605 The leftmost spider never takes the eyeball. What is the purpose of the moving platform?
16698 Jack-stuck if Jack arrives to this room in the right lower corner without a green key.
17501 Impossible with a blue key and without a shield.

Finished with €16800 and 86% secrets

---

Thanks for the remarks, brell. I will definitely have a look to all issues.

Right now, without MM nearby only this.

The mansion is still in a beta phase. So your mindset is finding 'mistakes'. And that is why you assume that the moving platform in room 17605 might be meaningless or a not removed leftover.

The situation with the not taken eyeball wan't meant to be but I didn't correct that because it had two interesting consequences. Using the platform needs a little bit of thinking and getting the most left coin also.

A revisit?

brell wrote on 27.02.2023 at 21:39:47:

16503 What happens if jack uses his multicolor key in this room? Now I am in room 16703 with one red key.  See picture 8.  I know there is a red door in the room to the right and another one in the room above.  Now Jack can access both rooms from this position.  Which shoud it be?  As I presume it is not intended (and will be fixed) that Jack can go to the room above from this position I will open the red door in the room to the right. Decisions, decisions.  The player cannot know which door to open first. and whether opening this or that door first will lead to complications later. ...

A good night brought me insight about this room that I am going to change. The wrong design almost sure doesn't lead to any kind of Jack stuck but there is a major BUT! Like it is now it is a guessing game and I pleaded myself to avoid that. So fixing may be expected.

Edited: fixed (see images) and will be seen in the next version.

---

Freddy wrote on 27.02.2023 at 23:36:43:

... in room 17605  ... The situation with the not taken eyeball wan't meant to be but I didn't correct that because it had two interesting consequences. Using the platform needs a little bit of thinking and getting the most left coin also. ...

More insight. The 4th giant spider missing the 4th eye ball looks soooo bad that I will fix this as well.
But the moving platform ...
:-X

Edited:
It wasn't that easy to force the 4th (always left) spider to eat the last eye ball. Depending from the moment of pulling the lever to open the trap doors and the position of the spiders and eye balls, it may be any of the 4 eye balls that stays alive. The solution I chose was increasing the speed of the eye balls from 5 to 14.

brell wrote on 27.02.2023 at 21:39:47:

... 17101 Should the jump back be more obvious or at least be worth a secret?  Picture 9. ...

I think I am going to tear down the wall (Pink Floyd) between the left and the right parts of the room. An obvious opening for Jack to jump in both directions.

Edited: fixed (see pic).

---

The other issues.

17300 I brought the delay between the jumps of the fish bones from 120 to 160, while one shield is still 'waiting' above the platforms.

16698 Easy fix. I replaced the ladder between 16699 and 16899.

16905 I added a shield on the bottom floor and moved a moneybag to the top floor.

17505 My bad. A typical hurry-to-post mistake. I should have known better! (Beatles)

The life of a designer is full of fun. Creating new rooms, polishing existing rooms, fixing reported mistakes. And troubleshooting ...

Have a look at the image of room 17100. My Jack entered the room when the blocks were gold and at a certain point he arrived in the lower left corner. No silver block there, only a gap! My jack, as a test, walked into the gap and arrived on top of a purple door. See the picture of room 17300. To fix that I moved the purple door a little bit to the right to avoid that Jack falls on that door.

New problem. At a new attempt my Jack walked again into that gap and fell dead at the left of the door, but before dying he touched the door and since he had a rainbow key the purple door opened!
::)

I had no space enough to move the door more to the right because of the ladder. Thus: I moved the ladder, the door and the construction above that ladder. Result: in room 17100 I had a hidden platform that wasn't working proper anymore.
;D

Just to say that some things take time.

Version 013 is enclosed. There are now 16 secrets, 7 saves, more shields and $ 19.325 although I can't find $ 50 of them.
:-[

All remarks are welcome.

---

Good morning, brell !

This morning I suddenly realized that room 16703 is still not wat we both want it to be. On the picture Jack came in from the left while the blocks were gold and is now standing on top of the silver blocks, ready to climb the ladder and start a thorough visit of the room above.

But there are still two problems!
1. Jack may also leave the room immediately to the left and continue somewhere completely else.
2. Jack may do the visit above, but after returning to room 16703 he may go right, change the blocks back to gold and leave the room by retracing his steps.

Both things don't lead to Jack-stucks but they are unwanted because leading to a guessing feeling or bringing up ideas of (large) backtracking.

Solution.
Part 1. In room 16703 the G/S-lever will be replaced by a (red) press button forcing the blocks to become and stay normal (= silver) and the most left silver block will be removed. The way out of this section will start with a ladder down in the bottom left corner of the room above. That is left of a closed grey door that must be opened with a lever that is behind the red door that had to be opened first! In room 16703 the one-way ladder down will replace the blue floating bricks in the upper left corner.
Part 2. It will be absolutely necessary to make changes concerning the blue key. Because of the one-way issue it will have serious consequences when leaving the section without a key. Assume Jack opened the red door with the rainbow key, did not pick up the blue key and took the one-way ladder down, I think he is forced to do large backtracking into the purple area to change the blocks back to gold to be able to get the 'forgotten' blue key. (What is right now the same when Jack jumps down to left from the silver blocks without a key.)
:o


Edited

Even after the changes there is more to think about. Take the same room 16703 with Jack on top of the silver blocks. There he makes a wrong movement and dies. When he came from the room above he reappears on the ladder and is able to climb up again. No harm. But what if he hadn't been up yet and reappears at the left entrance?

If Jack has a rainbow key, he is at the very beginning of the blue area and has a lot of good alternatives. But he also may have a red key (a wrong or no key is also possible but a playing mistake). Then there are two possibilities. The red door in room 16704 is still closed and is Jack's new and only target. Or that red door is already opened.

In that case the blocks have to be changed to gold again. And that means backtracking. Maybe a lot.
:(

Or I do much more changes like:
- moving the G/S-press button to the room above;
- replacing the silver blocks with solid blue bricks.

---

17499 is under maintenance and one of the reasons is because it felt to hard. The problem is the up and down going platform at the left that may go down in the lava. I am thinking of avoiding that with a solid ledge in the lower left corner and maybe also one in the upper left corner. That would help for the transfers as well. An obvious gap as a hint?! Interesting idea. I would dare to do that. Suits well with BNW!

17300 I will surely make the length of the intervals long enough. The shields are more a general issue. So am I going to remove almost all the covers of the shields because I want to give the players real shield information with the map.

You finished with €17400 and 81% secrets. If you had a second save with $ 4.000, then you did find 6 secrets at that time. With 81% it seems that you are missing 3 of the 10 secrets from the blue area. Planning new attempts?

16703 A brief moment I was thinking of a G/S-lever in TZ1 but that would be a paradox with the concept of the blue area. Can you imaging all future Jacks running several times on and off to that lever? I am going to fix it till it works exactly the same as all other sections of the blue area.

[smiley=thumbdown.gif]

I am really really sorry, brell.

This morning I saw that I made an awful mistake. My answer on your latest post did overwrite yours. So your text is gone. And my text looks like it is yours. Pfff ...

:-[

No problem.

Regarding 17499, are we talking about the same room?  I was talking about the ghost platforms room in my post.  There are no moving platforms in 17499.
I was talking about the gap in the lower right corner from the ghost platform there to the conveyor belt.  There is an opening in the wall to the right of the belt which gives a hint of a room behind but the gap is too big for Jack to jump.

Oops again. I was talking about an other room. There are three rooms that IMO may be too hard:  the one with the ghost platforms, the one with the moving platforms and the one with sinking platforms and two eye balls. 'Your' room with the fish bones I added to that list. I certainly want to bring them all to a normal level.

Concerning the missing secrets, my best suggestion is to keep searching. E.g. check the map for gaps when Jack is at the end of TZ2 thus before using any TGV-platform to the finish. That will give me an idea of the current hint-difficulty-degree.
[smiley=dankk2.gif]

Freddy wrote on 07.03.2023 at 18:30:38:

Concerning the missing secrets, my best suggestion is to keep searching. E.g. check the map for gaps when Jack is at the end of TZ2 thus before using any TGV-platform to the finish. That will give me an idea of the current hint-difficulty-degree. [smiley=dankk2.gif]

Found the way into room 17500.  I recalled something from the ultimate maze in MM&M.
But isn't this a bit too hard for an inexperienced player to discover?  Perhaps a hint is needed?

Finished with 14 secrets.

brell wrote on 07.03.2023 at 20:31:50:

Found the way into room 17500.  I recalled something from the ultimate maze in MM&M. But isn't this a bit too hard for an inexperienced player to discover?  Perhaps a hint is needed?

Nothing wrong with your memory! The idea came indeed from that exhausting maze. I thought that the existing of the conveyor belt was enough as a hint (besides the obvious gap in the wall). As you know I try new things as hint. I want players to search for odd things. So what is that belt doing there? Assume that there is a room at the right, where may Jack enter it? At last 'where' is supposed to change in 'how' since a jump from the ghost platform to the conveyor belt is impossible. (Btw, I can't change the 6-tile gap into 5 or less, because then it makes the belt completely senseless.)

I have an idea for something extra (that is not a coin or an other reward).


brell wrote on 07.03.2023 at 20:31:50:

Finished with 14 secrets.

Two missing. Have you read the sign in the blue area about a secret room? It may be of interest to do that if you didn't yet. I don't know what the other missing secret could be. Therefor I must dive into the builder.

Do you remember the total amount of money at the exit?

Freddy wrote on 07.03.2023 at 22:47:41:

brell wrote on 07.03.2023 at 20:31:50: Found the way into room 17500.  I recalled something from the ultimate maze in MM&M. But isn't this a bit too hard for an inexperienced player to discover?  Perhaps a hint is needed? Nothing wrong with your memory! The idea came indeed from that exhausting maze. I thought that the existing of the conveyor belt was enough as a hint (besides the obvious gap in the wall). As you know I try new things as hint. I want players to search for odd things. So what is that belt doing there? Assume that there is a room at the right, where may Jack enter it? At last 'where' is supposed to change in 'how' since a jump from the ghost platform to the conveyor belt is impossible. (Btw, I can't change the 6-tile gap into 5 or less, because then it makes the belt completely senseless.) I have an idea for something extra (that is not a coin or an other reward).

Perhaps - as an afterthought - the belt and the gap is hint enough?


Freddy wrote on 07.03.2023 at 22:47:41:

brell wrote on 07.03.2023 at 20:31:50: Finished with 14 secrets. Two missing. Have you read the sign in the blue area about a secret room? It may be of interest to do that if you didn't yet. I don't know what the other missing secret could be. Therefor I must dive into the builder. Do you remember the total amount of money at the exit?

Yes, I read that sign but I am not sure which room you are referring to.  I must try again.

€17.400

Regarding 17703:

Perhaps you can make it impossible for Jack  to make a suicidal jump from the top of the silver bricks?  Then the problem is solved I believe.  You could use the T to make platforms appear to the sides of the silver bricks or something like that.

And you are also still missing a second secret. Have you been back to the room with the four giant spiders and the four fast moving eye balls? To have closer look ...

brell wrote on 08.03.2023 at 18:14:06:

Regarding 17703: Perhaps you can make it impossible for Jack  to make a suicidal jump from the top of the silver bricks?  Then the problem is solved I believe.  You could use the T to make platforms appear to the sides of the silver bricks or something like that.

I thought about that, but there is also the platform where the G/S-lever is. Jack may die there as well and the right side can't be closed because it's a 'landing' platform.

brell wrote on 08.03.2023 at 18:10:42:

... Perhaps - as an afterthought - the belt and the gap is hint enough? ...

I believe that we are on the same wavelength. The hints for the secret feel okay and normal. But 'play' is on the edge of hard. So wat I yesterday had in mind, you may see now in the image.

Room 17499 is still under maintenance but I used ten spare minutes for a few changes starting with a safer ledge in the upper left corner. There Jack's progress to the red key is with the short ladder. And that is supposed to be a reminder or a lesson as help for what is going on at the other side of the room.

The added lever helps Jack out of the left lower corner .

---

Regarding room 16703, this is what I am going to do (and see if everything works).

- Replace the silver blocks with gold blocks and allow jumps to the left because of that gold coin.
- Remove the 3 gold blocks left of the lever. And the lever itself.
- Create a G/S-changer in the room above.
- Install a way back ladder from the lower left corner in the room above to the upper left corner of 16703.
- Add the blue key on that ladder to expose that Jack has to go up and down with one way ladders.
- In the room above, add a second door in the lower left corner activated with a press button in the upper right corner.

Freddy wrote on 09.03.2023 at 15:28:54:

Regarding room 16703, this is what I am going to do (and see if everything works). - Replace the silver blocks with gold blocks and allow jumps to the left because of that gold coin. - Remove the 3 gold blocks left of the lever. And the lever itself. - Create a G/S-changer in the room above. - Install a way back ladder from the lower left corner in the room above to the upper left corner of 16703. - Add the blue key on that ladder to expose that Jack has to go up and down with one way ladders. - In the room above, add a second door in the lower left corner activated with a press button in the upper right corner.

Are you sure you are not referring to 17703?

Freddy wrote on 08.03.2023 at 19:50:29:

And you are also still missing a second secret. Have you been back to the room with the four giant spiders and the four fast moving eye balls? To have closer look ...

OK found it.  Very subtle  8-)

Finished with 91% (15) secrets and €17.700 (or thereabout).  Still missing one secret.

brell wrote on 09.03.2023 at 23:37:55:

Finished with 91% (15) secrets and €17.700 (or thereabout). Still missing one secret.

In MM2 - Brave New World so far all secrets have something similar. They are linked at a passage way to an other room (where the blue 'S' is given at the entrance). No jumping and kicking around for hidden gaps in walls. Search for (subtle) odd, suspicious things. "Why on earth is there ...?"
Anyway I am thinking of adding something extra for this secret. I thought of adding it somewhere on a map, but then the secret may suddenly feel too easy ...
For now I can tell you:
- that there is a bigger amount of money than average so searching worthwhile;
- finding the secret is one thing, getting the dollars something else (remember the sign!).

brell wrote on 09.03.2023 at 23:24:15:

Freddy wrote on 08.03.2023 at 19:50:29: And you are also still missing a second secret. Have you been back to the room with the four giant spiders and the four fast moving eye balls? To have closer look ... OK found it.  Very subtle  8-)

Typical example:
- why is there an at first sight senseless moving platform?
- why is there a lever to close a grey door that should stay open?

brell wrote on 09.03.2023 at 22:52:24:

Freddy wrote on 09.03.2023 at 15:28:54: Regarding room 16703, this is what I am going to do (and see if everything works). - Replace the silver blocks with gold blocks and allow jumps to the left because of that gold coin. - Remove the 3 gold blocks left of the lever. And the lever itself. - Create a G/S-changer in the room above. - Install a way back ladder from the lower left corner in the room above to the upper left corner of 16703. - Add the blue key on that ladder to expose that Jack has to go up and down with one way ladders. - In the room above, add a second door in the lower left corner activated with a press button in the upper right corner. Are you sure you are not referring to 17703?

Portugal and Belgium seem to be in a different time zone.  [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

I did fix it like described and it seems to work. Besides that the blue key was a green key. (I should better stop posting when I can't control stuff. Like right now.)

brell wrote on 08.03.2023 at 18:10:42:

Perhaps - as an afterthought - the belt and the gap is hint enough?

I have something funny in mind for the room at the right. After removing the MM2 weather features, which were leftovers from a former testing room.

In TZ2 a while ago I added a MM2-critter on the vine to remind me that I want to introduce MM2-things in part 3 of the mansion. So once I have the feeling that the purple, TZ1 and blue areas are what I want them to be, I will need a break to train myself. Maybe I start with the Hanging Gardens of Babylon of which I created the first section. I can hardly remember that ...
:-? :-[

Freddy wrote on 10.03.2023 at 16:54:30:

Portugal and Belgium seem to be in a different time zone.  [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

Yes, they actually are.  We are GMT 00  ;)

16903 The sign does not hint anything on which room it is referring to.
16904 Very easy to miss the secret hints

17750€ and 100% secrets

brell wrote on 10.03.2023 at 21:49:12:

16903 The sign does not hint anything on which room it is referring to. 16904 Very easy to miss the secret hints

I did hesitate to give info about which room. Still don't know what I am exactly going to do, but 'something' will be done. That's for sure.


brell wrote on 10.03.2023 at 21:49:12:

17750€ and 100% secrets

Since you have all secrets but missing $ 1.625 ... Can you tell what your Jack did in the room with the last missing secret?

First he climbed down on the far right.  Then he climbed down on the far left and went for the lantern.  Don't recall finding any treasure.

Tried again.  Finished with 100% secrets and €19200.  Very subtle hints indeed.

Btw:  Is there anybody else following this thread and better yet, trying out this wonderful mansion?

brell wrote on 11.03.2023 at 22:42:36:

...  Finished with 100% secrets and €19200.  ...

[smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]


brell wrote on 11.03.2023 at 22:42:36:

Btw:  Is there anybody else following this thread and better yet, trying out this wonderful mansion?

Not yet. I am thinking of taking contact by e-mail with some of the former players, designers ... Should I do that?
Wonderful mansion ... ? I feel flattered. And in 7th heaven or is it 9th cloud?

As often on Saturdays, also this morning I was a few hours busy with the mansion. Details are for later. I just want to let you know that I can't post an update because there is an annoying problem that I first have to solve myself. The total amount of money in the next update will be exactly $ 20.000. But like before I am missing again $ 50 and thus I need to be sure where.

Found !!

Enclosed you'll find beta-version 014 of MM2 - Brave New World. The purple area en TZ1 didn't change. 20.000 dollars is now to be found.

Please have special attention for both shown rooms. In my opinion they are still too hard. But of course all remarks and questions are welcome.

I need to say something about room 16703. Again.
::)
The idea of replacing the silver bow by a gold bow was completely wrong. After changing the blocks, re-entering the room from the right leads to a Jack-stuck. Okay, I know that a stuck Jack is ...
:P

And about room 16904, the one with the moon, the tower and the yellow door. It got several hinting(?) changes.

---

In Brugge (Belgium), after a long grey, windy, rainy period it is a sunny Sunday morning.  :) And dawn brought two extra questions for you, brell.

1. Would it harm your side of the work if in the next version (015) I would remove the 7th save point (17101) and create a new one below the TZ2-room (17501)? Perfect play till there will give a save with $ 13.500 and zero keys.

2. The blue 'area' has three 'wings' (different backgrounds) with in total ten 'sections'. During design something happened that wasn't planned at all. In two sections there are two ways back. One is in the left wing and one in the right. It are two situations where you may miss some prices at first. But if so they only lead to a small detour or a coming back later.
Will you try to find them or do you want me to give precise information? And after you saw the places, do you have the feeling that I need to do something about it or not?

Freddy wrote on 12.03.2023 at 03:35:12:

Please have special attention for both shown rooms. In my opinion they are still too hard. But of course all remarks and questions are welcome.

Actually, I don't find them too hard.  But a shield would be nice in the latter  ;)

Freddy wrote on 12.03.2023 at 16:12:12:

In Brugge (Belgium), after a long grey, windy, rainy period it is a sunny Sunday morning.  :) And dawn brought two extra questions for you, brell. 1. Would it harm your side of the work if in the next version (015) I would remove the 7th save point (17101) and create a new one below the TZ2-room (17501)? Perfect play till there will give a save with $ 13.500 and zero keys.

No, that is OK.


Freddy wrote on 12.03.2023 at 16:12:12:

2. The blue 'area' has three 'wings' (different backgrounds) with in total ten 'sections'. During design something happened that wasn't planned at all. In two sections there are two ways back. One is in the left wing and one in the right. It are two situations where you may miss some prices at first. But if so they only lead to a small detour or a coming back later. Will you try to find them or do you want me to give precise information? And after you saw the places, do you have the feeling that I need to do something about it or not?

I don't think you should worry about this.  Not a problem IMO.

16700: The map in this room reveals the two blue rooms to the right of TZ1.  Gives the player the feeling that he should start (and perhaps use his rainbow key) over there.
The player can also go down to 17100 and start there.

16702: The map here reveals room 17102 below and 17101.  Is it possible that this may confuse the player as of where to begin?  We know that it should not matter where we begin but I have always had the feeling that you want the player to use the rainbow key in 17302.

17101: It is possible to go down from here to 17501 and use the rainbow key down there.  What happens then?

16905: Haven’t managed to kill the medusa in flames yet.  Have to use a shield.  Perhaps a bit slower medusa?

100% secrets, €19750

You did send me finally THE post about THE issue of the blue area. I was prepared for that. Have a look at the map.

When Jack arrives in transit zone 1 the blocks are always gold. The map shows the situation where my Jack never left TZ1 and picked up the three available maps. It was the intention to give information about which gates to the blue surrounding area are accessible and which not. No more. Nothing is given about doors or keys.

A closer look teaches the player that the gold blocks may be the obstacle or sometimes are helping. The left (1) and right (2) wing give clear info. On the bottom only partly. The left room (1) gives an entrance. The middle and right room maybe. So there are at least four usable gates.

As designer I did make the construction so that:
- there are exactly five places where you can start (with the blocks on gold);
- there also five sections that are only accessible with the blocks on silver;
- in some sections G/S do change and in others not;
- wherever you start you are always able to visit all ten sections (once), pick up all prices and arrive in transit zone 2 with one single key that you have to use as entrance fee to the next (green?) area.

When you open a coloured entrance door in any blue section it is impossible to continue to the exit without picking up the key that is at Jack's disposal. Depending from the section the G/S-blocks changed or didn't. In both cases, with the found key Jack will always have one and only one place in the blue section to go one. So the whole blue section is a large rotation starting with a random chosen section. But it is not a guessing game where you may have bad luck and missing a lot of fun. The colour of the key at the end of the last section will always be the colour of the first opened door.

I tell you a secret.  :-X  My Jack likes to start at the right over the conveyor belt with the two scorpions. That has a reason, because he knows where to be next and then have a good placed save point on his way back. And afterwards a very good spread of the other saving pedestals. That is what they call 'designers luck'.
;)

---

brell wrote on 12.03.2023 at 21:52:34:

... 16905: Haven’t managed to kill the medusa in flames yet.  Have to use a shield.  Perhaps a bit slower medusa? ...

I am very sure that you may do that without a shield. Without taking any stupid risks lure Arthur to the lower left corner and then to the upper right corner. Then Jack goes left, down and right to the lever with the green knot and the same way back. Once you know ...

Freddy wrote on 13.03.2023 at 04:56:43:

...  with the found key Jack will always have one and only one place in the blue section to go one. ...

Since 11 pm last night that is not the truth anymore. Laying on my back in bed I suddenly realized that it is possible to skip the green door in the left blue wing. Or, in the same section, open that green door and save an extra yellow key. In both cases that may lead to all kinds of two key combinations while running around in TZ1 and at last arriving in TZ2.
:o

That wasn't meant to be and is absolutely unwanted. And will be fixed in beta version 015.

Freddy wrote on 13.03.2023 at 04:56:43:

You did send me finally THE post about THE issue of the blue area. I was prepared for that. Have a look at the map. When Jack arrives in transit zone 1 the blocks are always gold. The map shows the situation where my Jack never left TZ1 and picked up the three available maps. It was the intention to give information about which gates to the blue surrounding area are accessible and which not. No more. Nothing is given about doors or keys. A closer look teaches the player that the gold blocks may be the obstacle or sometimes are helping. The left (1) and right (2) wing give clear info. On the bottom only partly. The left room (1) gives an entrance. The middle and right room maybe. So there are at least four usable gates. As designer I did make the construction so that: - there are exactly five places where you can start (with the blocks on gold); - there also five sections that are only accessible with the blocks on silver; - in some sections G/S do change and in others not; - wherever you start you are always able to visit all ten sections (once), pick up all prices and arrive in transit zone 2 with one single key that you have to use as entrance fee to the next (green?) area. When you open a coloured entrance door in any blue section it is impossible to continue to the exit without picking up the key that is at Jack's disposal. Depending from the section the G/S-blocks changed or didn't. In both cases, with the found key Jack will always have one and only one place in the blue section to go one. So the whole blue section is a large rotation starting with a random chosen section. But it is not a guessing game where you may have bad luck and missing a lot of fun. The colour of the key at the end of the last section will always be the colour of the first opened door. I tell you a secret.  :-X  My Jack likes to start at the right over the conveyor belt with the two scorpions. That has a reason, because he knows where to be next and then have a good placed save point on his way back. And afterwards a very good spread of the other saving pedestals. That is what they call 'designers luck'. ;)

Many thanks for this clarification.  Maybe I'll try using the rainbow key elsewhere.  But you didn't comment on:

"17101: It is possible to go down from here to 17501 and use the rainbow key down there.  What happens then?"

Hopefully Jack has used the first saving point if he makes this mistake.

brell wrote on 13.03.2023 at 19:12:55:

... 17101: It is possible to go down from here to 17501 and use the rainbow key down there. What happens then? Hopefully Jack has used the first saving point if he makes this mistake.

Thanks for reminding me. I hope I am right that the axis 17101-17501 is the room with the save point, then the room with the five coloured doors and finally the room with the tgv-platform. While designing the previous areas I only kept three things in mind:
- that there is no Jack-stuck if he opens a door in room 17301;
- that the axis needs to be one way down;
- that if Jack opens one of those doors before having finished the whole blue area, there still is an other way back (although a long one).

That could be enough. But maybe better (normal) is doing a few things: not remove the saving pedestal in room 17101, get rid of the scorpion and add a sign with a warning about using any key before having finished the whole blue area. Should that be enough?

But there is something more. The axis must be a full one way, because I can't allow that Jack picks up a key in the third area and then climbs back to the blue area. The mansion is already complicated enough.

Version 015 for free betatesting is included.

Right now it is difficult to give detailed information about the changes, because I may only do that after playing version 014 again to recall all the differences. So now I just add general info.

In the purple and in the blue area the average amount of money is $ 300 / room. In both transit zones it is $ 166 / room. In total there is $ 21.500 to be found.

Total number of secrets is now 17.

The text of nearly all signs did change (a little bit).

In TZ1 I noticed that at several places some of the bricks had the wrong mud-colour. I fixed that and used that wrong colour for all the bricks in TZ2.

TZ2 is expanded although still under maintenance. Wind got added, music removed.

And now the blue area.
G/S-switches. Because the levers have green knots, now all the pressure plates are green as well.
In the section that starts with the conveyor belt and two scorpions the secret got more hinted.
In the section with the upper red door several things got changed to fix some annoying situations.
In the section with the interesting jump followed by a green were most changes. Backdoor got closed, blue key moved to the next room that is now one way ...
In the section that leads to the bottom ladder jump to open a blue door, I changed some things in the left side of the first room.

---

See the bottom line on the image. How confusing.

I did add the zip file for version 015 and you may get the impression that I added the previous version. Due to the system of the software.

My given name of the added zip was: MM2 - BNW betatesting. By coincidence it is the 14th time that a file was added to the boards with that same name. And that is why the boards automatically did add the suffix 014.

It is what it is. But I just wanted to assure that the attachment really is 015.

---

Freddy wrote on 23.03.2023 at 16:18:18:

In the purple and in the blue area the average amount of money is $ 300 / room. In both transit zones it is $ 166 / room. In total there is $ 21.500 to be found.

Am I to understand that you did some changes in the purple area?


Freddy wrote on 23.03.2023 at 16:18:18:

In the section with the interesting jump followed by a green were most changes.

...followed by a green WHAT?

brell wrote on 23.03.2023 at 19:23:45:

Am I to understand that you did some changes in the purple area?

No. That means: only the text from the sign at the exit. Nothing to check or worry about.



brell wrote on 23.03.2023 at 19:23:45:

...followed by a green WHAT?

Oops. Green door. (Previously it was possible to enter the section with a yellow key through a yellow back door, get really everything and return the same way. Green door skipped and an extra green key saved.

Went down from 16700 to 17100.  Gold blocks on.  Went further down, opened the green door in 17300, got the blue key and changed gold to silver.

Went to 16703 with blue key, got green key, have two keys now

17101:  Jack must somehow be prevented from going down from this room to 17301 and to 17501 without having explored TZ1/blue area first.  Otherwise:

17501 with green and blue key.  Can go down the pole here if I go first to 17503 and toggle silver-gold.  Which means Jack can go back to the starting room without exploring TZ1/blue area first.

PS 17703 nothing can be done at the top left?

I will know what to do next Saturday morning.  :)


brell wrote on 23.03.2023 at 23:45:49:

Went down from 16700 to 17100.  Gold blocks on.  Went further down, opened the green door in 17300, got the blue key and changed gold to silver.  Went to 16703 with blue key, got green key, have two keys now

There are more (coloured door) puzzles to come. The major problem is that as soon as Jack has two keys, I can't know what the colour will be from the saved key when sliding down the green pole. If I would be sure about that colour I could arrange an extra treasure room and go on with the other four colours. So I really have to avoid that Jack at any time gets a second key.

In 16703 I changed a bad idea into other bad ideas. Once I brought the green key down to this room, at first there was no gold block below the falling green key, because ... it couldn't fall. At that time I thought it worked. Jack had to open the red door to be able to open the grey door in the lower left corner of the room above, then to go down and change gold to silver and finally take the other ladder down, step on the silver block and jump to the key. Fixed! ... Till I realized that it is absolutely possible that Jack misses the key when jumping to the left. And the blocks need to be changed to gold again to do a new attempt, while not having any key!

That was the point where I added the gold block and made the green key falling. Now a new test showed that, when Jack earlier in the game should go to the other red door, that the blocks are silver and he may pick the green key from below while jumping on the neon platform. I lowered that platform. Fixed! But forgot that Jack may come into the room from the left as well.

The easiest way to fix this is bringing the green key back to the room above etc. But I did like to expose the green key so early, as a variation to the other blue sections. I see what I can do.
:-/


brell wrote on 23.03.2023 at 23:45:49:

17101:  Jack must somehow be prevented from going down from this room to 17301 and to 17501 without having explored TZ1/blue area first.  Otherwise: 17501 with green and blue key.  Can go down the pole here if I go first to 17503 and toggle silver-gold.  Which means Jack can go back to the starting room without exploring TZ1/blue area first.

In this mansion I like to keep the start of exploring the blue area random. And then it is impossible to force Jack to visit TZ1 and the full BA before arriving in TZ2.

I do hope that I did enough by adding the warning sign (and save) and I just need to be very sure that Jack never has two keys.


brell wrote on 23.03.2023 at 23:45:49:

17703 nothing can be done at the top left?

Yes and no. It depends from when.  :-X

I am still busy with checking, solving problems and completing TZ2.

Concerning 16703

Freddy wrote on 24.03.2023 at 18:18:13:

The easiest way to fix this is bringing the green key back to the room above etc. But I did like to expose the green key so early, as a variation to the other blue sections. I see what I can do.

I did find a way to keep the green key in the lower room. See pic 16703a. But this area is really cursed. For the first time I encountered an important shield problem.

Time line:
1. After arriving in TZ1 Jack chose the blue section with the upper red door to do first of all (pic 16703 a).
2. Jack entered with five shields.
3. In 16503 he opened the red door.
4. He filled his backpack with shields (pic 16503).
5. Jack went down and changed gold into silver but couldn't pick up the green key (pic 16703 b).

It is easy to get rid of a shield in the room above, but I need to accept that it is possible that Jack may continue back to TZ1 with his six shields. Well, that is nearly a Jack-stuck because all other blue sections are 'closed' as well as TZ2 (and the way to the exit). The only thing that rest is going up again to the purple section to change the blocks back to gold. A quarter of an hour backtracking ...
:o :o :o

I fixed it by removing the two shields in this blue section. But, after this experience, I absolutely need to do severe shield-checks in the other blue sections.

---

Enclosed is version 016 of BNW for betatesting. There are 18 secrets now and the target is $ 23.500.

With what I know right now all problems in or because of the blue area should be fixed. One of them was this. So far I always thought that there was a (very long) way to revisit the blue section after a too early opening of a door in room 17501. That is still true, but as senseless as the short backtracking (before gliding down the green pole).

There is no need to restart the mansion from the very start. However, room 16098 got changes. See pic. Just keep that in mind.

brell, I like to know:
- if you still have remarks about the blue area;
- if you figured out the problem with the empty point of view in TZ2;
- with what amount of money you could finish.

Thanks ahead. As always.

---

Freddy wrote on 24.03.2023 at 18:18:13:

brell wrote on 23.03.2023 at 23:45:49: 17101:  Jack must somehow be prevented from going down from this room to 17301 and to 17501 without having explored TZ1/blue area first.  Otherwise: 17501 with green and blue key.  Can go down the pole here if I go first to 17503 and toggle silver-gold.  Which means Jack can go back to the starting room without exploring TZ1/blue area first. In this mansion I like to keep the start of exploring the blue area random. And then it is impossible to force Jack to visit TZ1 and the full BA before arriving in TZ2.

I'm sure there exists a solution and that you will find it  8-)

Freddy wrote on 26.03.2023 at 17:30:29:

I am still busy with checking, solving problems and completing TZ2. Concerning 16703 Freddy wrote on 24.03.2023 at 18:18:13: The easiest way to fix this is bringing the green key back to the room above etc. But I did like to expose the green key so early, as a variation to the other blue sections. I see what I can do. I did find a way to keep the green key in the lower room. See pic 16703a. But this area is really cursed. For the first time I encountered an important shield problem. Time line: 1. After arriving in TZ1 Jack chose the blue section with the upper red door to do first of all (pic 16703 a). 2. Jack entered with five shields. 3. In 16503 he opened the red door. 4. He filled his backpack with shields (pic 16503). 5. Jack went down and changed gold into silver but couldn't pick up the green key (pic 16703 b). It is easy to get rid of a shield in the room above, but I need to accept that it is possible that Jack may continue back to TZ1 with his six shields. Well, that is nearly a Jack-stuck because all other blue sections are 'closed' as well as TZ2 (and the way to the exit). The only thing that rest is going up again to the purple section to change the blocks back to gold. A quarter of an hour backtracking ... :o :o :o I fixed it by removing the two shields in this blue section. But, after this experience, I absolutely need to do severe shield-checks in the other blue sections.

But it is easy for the player to get rid of one or two shields on nearby monsters

Freddy wrote on 27.03.2023 at 00:03:05:

Enclosed is version 016 of BNW for betatesting. There are 18 secrets now and the target is $ 23.500. With what I know right now all problems in or because of the blue area should be fixed. One of them was this. So far I always thought that there was a (very long) way to revisit the blue section after a too early opening of a door in room 17501. That is still true, but as senseless as the short backtracking (before gliding down the green pole). There is no need to restart the mansion from the very start. However, room 16098 got changes. See pic. Just keep that in mind. brell, I like to know: - if you still have remarks about the blue area; - if you figured out the problem with the empty point of view in TZ2; - with what amount of money you could finish. Thanks ahead. As always.

OK.  Finished with €23450 and 17 secrets = 94%.

I guess, after the warning sign before going down to TZ2 and using your last key there (I could go down and use my rainbow key), the player deserves having to take the looong way back to the starting room and get another rainbow key.

No remarks about blue area - as of now  ;)

Not sure what you mean by "empty point" but I solved the dark room.

One thing regarding the startup room, see picture

Instead of leaving, Jack jumped further to the right for a gold coin.  He cannot jump back and thus has to go for the rainbow key.  There is a possible cheap death there.  Jack jumps to the right from the vine to a short brick and has to run for the rainbow key. If he walks slowly he will fall to his death.
After this, Jack will have to do a rather long and tedious walk to get to the ledge below in order to get back to the exit.

---

brell wrote on 27.03.2023 at 21:52:58:

OK.  Finished with €23450 and 17 secrets = 94%.

I think I know where you missed the new secret (since you found the previous one to solve the dark room). It has $ 500.


brell wrote on 27.03.2023 at 21:52:58:

I guess, after the warning sign before going down to TZ2 and using your last key there (I could go down and use my rainbow key), the player deserves having to take the looong way back to the starting room and get another rainbow key.

That was the original intention.


brell wrote on 27.03.2023 at 21:52:58:

Not sure what you mean by "empty point" but I solved the dark room.

The empty upper left corner in the dark room that at first is closed and only a point of view.


brell wrote on 27.03.2023 at 21:52:58:

One thing regarding the startup room, see picture Instead of leaving, Jack jumped further to the right for a gold coin.  He cannot jump back and thus has to go for the rainbow key.  There is a possible cheap death there.  Jack jumps to the right from the vine to a short brick and has to run for the rainbow key. If he walks slowly he will fall to his death. After this, Jack will have to do a rather long and tedious walk to get to the ledge below in order to get back to the exit.

I will check that.

brell wrote on 27.03.2023 at 19:28:44:

I'm sure there exists a solution and that you will find it  8-)

It took a while but I will 'pick up the glove'. I assume that this literal translation out of Flemish is very bad. It means that I accept the challenge.

Very fast I had an idea that was theoretical good but not at all executable. Imagine! Out of each blue section a long path had to be made. The paths needed to come together in one single room. That room would have ten balconies with levers to open a row of ten grey doors. From each balcony Jack would have to go back to the blue section. And only after visiting all blue sections and balconies Jack could enter the 10-grey-doors-room with an 11th entrance and leave through the opened doors.
:o ::)

After thinking about several half solutions I got a new idea. It will need a lot of work and that is why there isn't any update yet.

For your comfort I may guarantee you that there will nearly be no changes in all what was designed for purple, TZ1 and blue. The two exceptions are the blue room with the 7th saving point and the 'starting' room 16098. The latter one already executed. See image.

The gold coin got split in two.  :)
The short vine removed.
The wall right of the middle silver coin is now solid.

To be continued.

I nearly forgot. I fixed a Jack-stuck in TZ2 (the room with the vines and the fish bones). In a rare situation Jack wasn't able to pull a lever anymore, because the 'other guy' is dominant and pulled an other lever. Rooms from TZ2 will be moved or rearranged. So keep in mind that the 8th and last save point will become out of use. Sorry about that.

---

[smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]
I am having a lot of work and therefor a lot of fun.

Along the way I fixed a problem in the blue section with the lower red door. After the blocks changed from silver to gold, there were two unwanted ways to go up to the section with the upper red door ...

In the room with the four giant spiders and four fast eye balls I fixed a problem by moving the three gold coins away from the bottom row. Like it was now it was nearly impossible to take them when Jack previously got eaten by one of the giants!

$ 3.000 in 'purple', $ 1.000 in TZ1 and so far $ 10.000 in 'blue'. To honor the work of all beta testers I will raise that to $ 11.000.
[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Oh dear ...

I had to make difficult decisions, because after many many hours I couldn't find a nice way to combine 1. the random start idea for the blue area - 2. making sure that all keys got rid at the end of that blue area - 3. Jack forcing to visit all blue sections.

While searching and testing I noticed other interesting features (besides fixings and a lot of polishing). That finally led to an important U-turn. In the soon coming update of MM2 - Brave New World beta version 17 the start of the blue area will not be random anymore. The blue area now start with something that might be a novelty.
:-/

It broke my heart (and yours brell) but the only purple room (16500) where was nothing to do I had to change. See pic. That has consequences for all previous saves because Jack now enters TZ1 without the rainbow key. Sorry about that.
:(

The entrance of TZ2 is now completely different. Jack enters room 17701 without any key. See image.

I like the brave newer world.
;)

So is the order of entering the two blue sections with the red entrance doors now forced. And it is a better order, because it gives more interesting playing fun! But I did also fix (H)JS's and other problems (like unwanted falling in a gap without dying), added more money, made some (jump) spots normal. And did polishing.

I am only satisfied when there are no disturbing issues like the one in room 16704 (pic). As soon as Jack entered this room the right giant spider always came down!? It seemed that it was a few pixels to close to the right so that the birds in the right closed cage were in it's scoop.

---

The zip for BNW beta 017 will be posted tonight. Perfect play will lead to $ 27.000 and 19 secrets.

Changes in general

- Introducing the MM2-T-feature in the blue area.
- Adding more money in the blue area.

Fixings

16703 Solved the problem that arose when Jack re-entered the room after changing the blocks from silver to gold.
16898 Brought the G/S-button and the key together.
16905 Brought the G/S-button and the key together.
17101 Removed the two blue garniture bricks in the upper right corner to avoid that Jack stays alive when falling into the room through a gap in the room above.
17300 Avoided that Jack could change the G/S-blocks without taking the key.
17303 Fixed a JS by making the lever to be usable only once. So the platform keeps on moving.

Most stricking features

- The novelty :question to 'start' the blue area.
- Major changes on the axis 17101-17501.
- The finish area of the mansion.

Polishing work

16497 The jump from the conveyor belt to the blue bricks platform is now normal.
16500 Solves the rainbow key issue. Now both TZ1 and TZ2 will be entered without any key.
16501 Reduced the number of red keys and doors, because the possession of many shields created to much running on and off.
16502 Moved the save pedestal to an IMO better place.
16503 In the lower right corner the ladder got replaced by a blue brick. When Jack approached the ladder it had a weird look because he appeared behind the ladder! Must have to do with the not solid floor.
16704 More playing fun now, because the giant spiders are still alive.
16705 The right giant spider is now behaving like the others.
16904 The jump left to the lever is now normal.
17100 More playing fun.
17101 The jumps over the central gap are normal now.
17102 More playing fun.
17301 The jumps over the central gap are normal now. That is also the case for the jump to the left ledge.
17303 The small emergency ladder in the upper left corner is now exposed. It felt a little bit unfair to hide it.
17500 Added 'something' to make the difficulty normal.

That was the summary.  [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

And here is the 17th version of BNW for beta testing.

---

1. My Jack went down to the right side of room 17101 without having gotten any key, stepped on the green floorbutton and thus changed from gold to silver blocks.  Now he seems not to be able to get any key at all and not able to find any place to change back to gold blocks.  Does he really have to backtrace to the starting zone to change back to gold blocks?

2. OK, restarted from the first save and went straight down to room 17300 with the gold blocks on but without any key.  Now he is stuck.  See attachment. It does not help to kill him so he reappears on the ladder and can climb back up to #17100 as he cannot get out of that room - but he can try the (silver brick) gap in the bottom to the left only to fall through to his death.
There is no way for Jack to know that he needs to have a green key if he goes down to the lower set of gold blocks in room 17100.

3. Third attempt starting from the first save:  Think I have checked every room I can walk into.  Ended in a JS in room 17099 as my Jack doesn't have any key.  See attachment.
There is no way for Jack to know that he needs to have a purple key if he decides to explore this room.

A recheck confirms that there are no reachable maps that show that Jack will need a green key in 17300 or a purple key in 17099.

It looks like I am missing something that is very hard to find/discover IMO.

---

OK. Room 16903.  A hint is definitely needed for Jack to find out how to open the lower grey door.

Jack is now in room 17499 with a red key and the gold blocks on.  As we know now (and confirmed with a look at the map), he cannot go back to TZ1 with gold bricks on and without a green key.  But the only red door in sight is the one in the blue room located "northeast" of TZ1.  Jack cannot go there with silver bricks on and there is no other red door in sight.  So, after having changed back to silver bricks, Jack has a guesswork to do as of where to go with the red key.

100% secrets, €26325

A quick reply.
Thx for all remarks. Meanwhile I did a lot of things*. Soon you'l hear from me.
The novelty is a question on it's own. I'll explain later as well.
TZ2 is supposed to become a pantry. Open green and you get a back pack, yellow for shields ...

In the purple area and TZ1 I made changes that you may but don't need to check. So did I move a lot of shields so that they are still within reach but Jack is not forced to collect them. I also fine-tuned the info on the maps based on the new situation of the mansion.

* In the room with the five giants I needed to fix 'endless' HJS's. Jack could jump from the moving platform into both empty birdcages!
>:(

[smiley=beer.gif]

brell wrote on 20.04.2023 at 19:11:07:

1. My Jack went down to the right side of room 17101 without having gotten any key, stepped on the green floorbutton and thus changed from gold to silver blocks.

My bad (part 1).

That press button was a leftover from a previous try to get the way to the next area 'working'. Removing this G/S-button was the very first thing I did after seeing your posts.
Leftovers occur to me more than I want to. In the past days I needed to remove a few L0-bricks in a room and a hidden platform in an other.

brell wrote on 20.04.2023 at 19:11:07:

2. OK, restarted from the first save and went straight down to room 17300 with the gold blocks on but without any key.  Now he is stuck. 3. Third attempt starting from the first save:  Think I have checked every room I can walk into.  Ended in a JS in room 17099 as my Jack doesn't have any key.

My bad (part 2 & 3).

Both JS's have the same cause: my negligence. How on earth didn't I realize that after removing the rainbow key, Jack may enter some rooms before getting any key!

Thus I did what I should have done before I posted BNW version 017: doing the grand tour of the blue area. And when I did I took notes for the repairs. Everthing is fixed now. I hope.

brell wrote on 21.04.2023 at 22:50:27:

Jack is now in room 17499 with a red key and the gold blocks on.  As we know now (and confirmed with a look at the map), he cannot go back to TZ1 with gold bricks on and without a green key.  But the only red door in sight is the one in the blue room located "northeast" of TZ1.  Jack cannot go there with silver bricks on and there is no other red door in sight.  So, after having changed back to silver bricks, Jack has a guesswork to do as of where to go with the red key.

It is possible that this remark is now without a subject after my fixings. Anyway, are you sure about the room number? In my room 17499 Jack may get a red key in a section that started with a purple door that is opened. In the section it is possible to change G/S. Going back to TZ1 always goes smoothly.

But since you mention the absence of a green key, there must be a closed green door? Green doors lead to blue keys. No reds.

So I stay interested in this issue.

brell wrote on 21.04.2023 at 22:23:21:

OK. Room 16903.  A hint is definitely needed for Jack to find out how to open the lower grey door.

I have an idea for a hint. A 'T' that creates a coin that invites Jack to jump.

But!

Jack arrives in TZ1 without a key and starts exploring TZ1 and the reachable blue surroundings (good for an other $ 1.500). His journey tought him that, for further progress, he either need to change gold into silver or get a key to open one of the coloured doors.

The first is completely impossible. Going back to the purple area doesn't help and even a fresh start of the mansion does not!

So he has to find a key. At first I should say that a look on the map shows only two keys of which the green one is out of reach. That narrows the path to the only other one. And with some thinking out of the box, what you did brell, Jack got his key.

On the other hand we are living now in a brave MM2-world ;) with T-triggers. So there may be a T with it's key anywhere. And we don't want to go back to the days of the (very) hard MM&M-rooms where Jack has to kick, duck and jump everywhere.

The question in general is: may the visitor of a mansion expect that a mansion is fair? Or concerning BNW, why should the designer suddenly install a 100% invisible key in a mansion that was fair and neat so far? A key that is absolutely necessary for progress. Wouldn't that be against all odds?
:-/

Leaves the final question: why should a key been shown when it is out of reach? The player may expect that it is ALWAYS possible to get it, isn't it?. And since G/S isn't involved, the solution must be in the room or with a secret passage from an adjacent room.

Freddy wrote on 25.04.2023 at 19:12:30:

brell wrote on 21.04.2023 at 22:50:27: Jack is now in room 17499 with a red key and the gold blocks on.  As we know now (and confirmed with a look at the map), he cannot go back to TZ1 with gold bricks on and without a green key.  But the only red door in sight is the one in the blue room located "northeast" of TZ1.  Jack cannot go there with silver bricks on and there is no other red door in sight.  So, after having changed back to silver bricks, Jack has a guesswork to do as of where to go with the red key. It is possible that this remark is now without a subject after my fixings. Anyway, are you sure about the room number? In my room 17499 Jack may get a red key in a section that started with a purple door that is opened. In the section it is possible to change G/S. Going back to TZ1 always goes smoothly. But since you mention the absence of a green key, there must be a closed green door? Green doors lead to blue keys. No reds. So I stay interested in this issue.

I may not have been very clear on this.  I am talking about room 17499.  I have the red key and I know that I can change gold to silver in this section and get back to TZ1.

But there is only one red door in sight in a room 16503 and that room is unreachable with silver blocks on.  And my Jack has not found any other red door yet as he has never been to room 16704.  So he has to go searching for another reachable red door. 
Not a big issue but wanted to let you know.

Freddy wrote on 25.04.2023 at 19:53:06:

brell wrote on 21.04.2023 at 22:23:21: OK. Room 16903.  A hint is definitely needed for Jack to find out how to open the lower grey door. I have an idea for a hint. A 'T' that creates a coin that invites Jack to jump. But! Jack arrives in TZ1 without a key and starts exploring TZ1 and the reachable blue surroundings (good for an other $ 1.500). His journey tought him that, for further progress, he either need to change gold into silver or get a key to open one of the coloured doors. The first is completely impossible. Going back to the purple area doesn't help and even a fresh start of the mansion does not! So he has to find a key. At first I should say that a look on the map shows only two keys of which the green one is out of reach. That narrows the path to the only other one. And with some thinking out of the box, what you did brell, Jack got his key. On the other hand we are living now in a brave MM2-world ;) with T-triggers. So there may be a T with it's key anywhere. And we don't want to go back to the days of the (very) hard MM&M-rooms where Jack has to kick, duck and jump everywhere. The question in general is: may the visitor of a mansion expect that a mansion is fair? Or concerning BNW, why should the designer suddenly install a 100% invisible key in a mansion that was fair and neat so far? A key that is absolutely necessary for progress. Wouldn't that be against all odds? :-/ Leaves the final question: why should a key been shown when it is out of reach? The player may expect that it is ALWAYS possible to get it, isn't it?. And since G/S isn't involved, the solution must be in the room or with a secret passage from an adjacent room.

I more or less agree with you - but some players (including this one) may think they have missed something and wander around aimlessly for hours looking for something that is not there.

brell wrote on 25.04.2023 at 21:25:00:

I more or less agree with you - but some players (including this one) may think they have missed something and wander around aimlessly for hours looking for something that is not there.

Is it possible that you were confused because, as a tester, you have a lot of knowledge in advance? In this peticular room previously the lever on the top floor opened all grey doors ...

I consider everything and will take a decision once the pantry (TZ2) is ready.

brell wrote on 25.04.2023 at 21:22:34:

I may not have been very clear on this.  I am talking about room 17499.  I have the red key and I know that I can change gold to silver in this section and get back to TZ1. But there is only one red door in sight in a room 16503 and that room is unreachable with silver blocks on.  And my Jack has not found any other red door yet as he has never been to room 16704.  So he has to go searching for another reachable red door.  Not a big issue but wanted to let you know.

Somewhere in one of the previous posts I told that I did change the info from a lot of maps. I'll check if that work 'solved' this issue.

Freddy wrote on 25.04.2023 at 22:48:48:

brell wrote on 25.04.2023 at 21:22:34: I may not have been very clear on this.  I am talking about room 17499.  I have the red key and I know that I can change gold to silver in this section and get back to TZ1. But there is only one red door in sight in a room 16503 and that room is unreachable with silver blocks on.  And my Jack has not found any other red door yet as he has never been to room 16704.  So he has to go searching for another reachable red door.  Not a big issue but wanted to let you know. Somewhere in one of the previous posts I told that I did change the info from a lot of maps. I'll check if that work 'solved' this issue.

In this purple door / red key section the map in room 17300 now shows the room with the lower red door (16704). I did proper work, for once.
:)

The pic shows the 7th save pedestal in the mansion. I am not pleased anymore with the position of this save. With the changed concept it is to close after the previous saving point and only 2 coins away from TZ 2.

Would it bother your testing efforts if I should remove this pedestal and:
- add one earlier in the blue area
and
- add one immediately at the entrance of TZ2?

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No bother at all

Betaversion 018 of BNW is coming soon. The zip is ready but the text for the post not.

I am able to include a zip of version 018 from MM2 - BNW betatesting.
:)

The purple area only got minor changes, like a bad 'working' L4-flower that is now changed into L6 or the adding of an extra hint to make a secret more normal.

TZ1 is something else. Room 16902 got major changes in function of an important grey door issue in the blue area. That is why I hope that all betatesters will restart testing from the very first save (with $ 3.000). The amount of money in TZ1 is still $ 1.000, what means that the added $ 200 money bag is part of the blue area! During play you will see why.

The blue area got a lot of minor but also some important changes (saves, fixings, even more money, ...). When arriving in TZ2 there is a save pedestal where the target is $ 16.000.

As announced TZ2 is a pantry (partly under maintenance): backpack, shields, maps, money bags, save. I hope everything works fine. Jack is supposed to arrive in TZ2 without a key and to leave it as well without any key. On the road Jack will have to make a decision. Something to think about before acting.

After leaving TZ2 'le train de grande vitesse' is still available. It brings Jack as fast as possible to the finish zone where a building mistake got corrected. It was possible to jump out of the mansion.
:o ::)

A finish with $ 30.000 is expected.
8-) :P

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I have a visitor from Iceland and will not be able to test for a while.  Looking forward to it. I will also post a new version of my "very easy" mansion later.

brell wrote on 05.05.2023 at 18:26:36:

I have a visitor from Iceland and will not be able to test for a while.

Enjoy!
[smiley=beer.gif]

A few remarks:

TZ1 and the blue area seem perfect now (although I would still like a clearer hint for the first key but that is not an important issue).

But my Jack is having a minor problem in the pantry.  See picture.  He is in room 17501 but without a green key as he used it in 18102 (shouldn't there be at least one silver coin behind that door (again not important).  Looking at the map he cannot find any other green key.  Not a JS but he is a bit annoyed, having to skip a part of 17501.

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Freddy wrote on 04.05.2023 at 16:59:42:

As announced TZ2 is a pantry (partly under maintenance): backpack, shields, maps, money bags, save. I hope everything works fine. Jack is supposed to arrive in TZ2 without a key and to leave it as well without any key. On the road Jack will have to make a decision. Something to think about before acting.

Does this mean that my Jack used the green key at the wrong place?  If so, how is he supposed to know that he is supposed to use it in the first pantry room?  There is no other green key in sight and my Jack opened the wrong(?) green door in order to find another green key.

brell wrote on 13.05.2023 at 21:05:41:

Does this mean that my Jack used the green key at the wrong place?  If so, how is he supposed to know that he is supposed to use it in the first pantry room?  There is no other green key in sight and my Jack opened the wrong(?) green door in order to find another green key.

There are a lot of ways to make changes for the green keys/doors issue of TZ2. But I like to keep as much from the puzzle as possible, but on the other hand want to make play fairly. As always.

I assume that you made a save in the lower left corner from room 17501. If you restart there and would know (I have a sign in mind) that there are only two green keys for the three green doors would that be enough?

The essence of this puzzle is that when you open the wrong door you are missing a lot of money, besides an extra save pedestal. But the sign must realize that you KNOW that for sure.

Please, give a yell. Before I change anything.

brell wrote on 13.05.2023 at 18:21:29:

... TZ1 and the blue area seem perfect now (although I would still like a clearer hint for the first key but that is not an important issue). ...

Was the text on the added (revealing) sign in room 16902 too vague? Should I need to add something like, that in the blue area 2 keys are in view without opening any coloured door and that only one is within reach. For sure!
:-/

Freddy wrote on 13.05.2023 at 23:43:12:

brell wrote on 13.05.2023 at 21:05:41: Does this mean that my Jack used the green key at the wrong place?  If so, how is he supposed to know that he is supposed to use it in the first pantry room?  There is no other green key in sight and my Jack opened the wrong(?) green door in order to find another green key. There are a lot of ways to make changes for the green keys/doors issue of TZ2. But I like to keep as much from the puzzle as possible, but on the other hand want to make play fairly. As always. I assume that you made a save in the lower left corner from room 17501. If you restart there and would know (I have a sign in mind) that there are only two green keys for the three green doors would that be enough? The essence of this puzzle is that when you open the wrong door you are missing a lot of money, besides an extra save pedestal. But the sign must realize that you KNOW that for sure. Please, give a yell. Before I change anything.

Yes, I made the save.  And yes, a sign would help, but it must not give too much away.  There is nothing (visible) behind the lowest green door.  Perhaps this puzzle is OK as it is.  The player must decide where to use the green key and a wrong decision does not lead to a JS.  Also, the last save is not far away.

So, as an afterthought, maybe no changes are needed.

Freddy wrote on 13.05.2023 at 23:47:25:

brell wrote on 13.05.2023 at 18:21:29: ... TZ1 and the blue area seem perfect now (although I would still like a clearer hint for the first key but that is not an important issue). ... Was the text on the added (revealing) sign in room 16902 too vague? Should I need to add something like, that in the blue area 2 keys are in view without opening any coloured door and that only one is within reach. For sure! :-/

Perhaps if you move that sign into the room in question?

brell wrote on 14.05.2023 at 17:44:37:

Freddy wrote on 13.05.2023 at 23:47:25: brell wrote on 13.05.2023 at 18:21:29: ... TZ1 and the blue area seem perfect now (although I would still like a clearer hint for the first key but that is not an important issue). ... Was the text on the added (revealing) sign in room 16902 too vague? Should I need to add something like, that in the blue area 2 keys are in view without opening any coloured door and that only one is within reach. For sure! :-/ Perhaps if you move that sign into the room in question?

I have the feeling that if I move the info into that room I spoil the novelty and make it too easy. Therefor I did clarify the existing sign. See pic. What do you think? Help enough but not too much?

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In a matter of fact, the green key issue in TZ2 is a yellow key thing.

On the first image you see that my Jack arrived for the first time in room 18102. Where he stands is the only spot where he could enter the room so far. He just opened the first of two purple doors and he has an other purple key. The room at the right is still dark and there are lanterns in view. As well as a new purple key.

Much later he arrives back in the room with a yellow key (pic 2), but he knows that there is a second yellow door in an other room. This is the point to make the right decision.

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