Midnight Mansion Forums - MM2

brell YaBB Administrator Offline Posts: 1782 Moita, Portugal Gender:	Re: MM2 - Brave New World Reply #140 - 21.04.2023 at 22:23:21 OK. Room 16903. A hint is definitely needed for Jack to find out how to open the lower grey door.
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brell

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Re: MM2 - Brave New World
Reply #141 - 21.04.2023 at 22:50:27

Jack is now in room 17499 with a red key and the gold blocks on. As we know now (and confirmed with a look at the map), he cannot go back to TZ1 with gold bricks on and without a green key. But the only red door in sight is the one in the blue room located "northeast" of TZ1. Jack cannot go there with silver bricks on and there is no other red door in sight. So, after having changed back to silver bricks, Jack has a guesswork to do as of where to go with the red key.

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brell YaBB Administrator Offline Posts: 1782 Moita, Portugal Gender:	Re: MM2 - Brave New World Reply #142 - 21.04.2023 at 23:59:10 100% secrets, €26325
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Freddy

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Re: MM2 - Brave New World
Reply #143 - 24.04.2023 at 04:12:16

A quick reply.
Thx for all remarks. Meanwhile I did a lot of things*. Soon you'l hear from me.
The novelty is a question on it's own. I'll explain later as well.
TZ2 is supposed to become a pantry. Open green and you get a back pack, yellow for shields ...

In the purple area and TZ1 I made changes that you may but don't need to check. So did I move a lot of shields so that they are still within reach but Jack is not forced to collect them. I also fine-tuned the info on the maps based on the new situation of the mansion.

* In the room with the five giants I needed to fix 'endless' HJS's. Jack could jump from the moving platform into both empty birdcages!
Angry

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Freddy

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Re: MM2 - Brave New World
Reply #144 - 25.04.2023 at 18:44:41

brell wrote on 20.04.2023 at 19:11:07:

1. My Jack went down to the right side of room 17101 without having gotten any key, stepped on the green floorbutton and thus changed from gold to silver blocks.

My bad (part 1).

That press button was a leftover from a previous try to get the way to the next area 'working'. Removing this G/S-button was the very first thing I did after seeing your posts.
Leftovers occur to me more than I want to. In the past days I needed to remove a few L0-bricks in a room and a hidden platform in an other.

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« Last Edit: 25.04.2023 at 19:57:18 by Freddy »

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Freddy

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Re: MM2 - Brave New World
Reply #145 - 25.04.2023 at 19:01:22

brell wrote on 20.04.2023 at 19:11:07:

2. OK, restarted from the first save and went straight down to room 17300 with the gold blocks on but without any key. Now he is stuck.

3. Third attempt starting from the first save: Think I have checked every room I can walk into. Ended in a JS in room 17099 as my Jack doesn't have any key.

My bad (part 2 & 3).

Both JS's have the same cause: my negligence. How on earth didn't I realize that after removing the rainbow key, Jack may enter some rooms before getting any key!

Thus I did what I should have done before I posted BNW version 017: doing the grand tour of the blue area. And when I did I took notes for the repairs. Everthing is fixed now. I hope.

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« Last Edit: 25.04.2023 at 20:16:00 by Freddy »

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Freddy

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Re: MM2 - Brave New World
Reply #146 - 25.04.2023 at 19:12:30

brell wrote on 21.04.2023 at 22:50:27:

Jack is now in room 17499 with a red key and the gold blocks on. As we know now (and confirmed with a look at the map), he cannot go back to TZ1 with gold bricks on and without a green key. But the only red door in sight is the one in the blue room located "northeast" of TZ1. Jack cannot go there with silver bricks on and there is no other red door in sight. So, after having changed back to silver bricks, Jack has a guesswork to do as of where to go with the red key.

It is possible that this remark is now without a subject after my fixings. Anyway, are you sure about the room number? In my room 17499 Jack may get a red key in a section that started with a purple door that is opened. In the section it is possible to change G/S. Going back to TZ1 always goes smoothly.

But since you mention the absence of a green key, there must be a closed green door? Green doors lead to blue keys. No reds.

So I stay interested in this issue.

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Freddy

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Re: MM2 - Brave New World
Reply #147 - 25.04.2023 at 19:53:06

brell wrote on 21.04.2023 at 22:23:21:

OK. Room 16903. A hint is definitely needed for Jack to find out how to open the lower grey door.

I have an idea for a hint. A 'T' that creates a coin that invites Jack to jump.

But!

Jack arrives in TZ1 without a key and starts exploring TZ1 and the reachable blue surroundings (good for an other $ 1.500). His journey tought him that, for further progress, he either need to change gold into silver or get a key to open one of the coloured doors.

The first is completely impossible. Going back to the purple area doesn't help and even a fresh start of the mansion does not!

So he has to find a key. At first I should say that a look on the map shows only two keys of which the green one is out of reach. That narrows the path to the only other one. And with some thinking out of the box, what you did

brell

, Jack got his key.

On the other hand we are living now in a brave MM2-world Wink

with T-triggers. So there may be a T with it's key anywhere. And we don't want to go back to the days of the (very) hard MM&M-rooms where Jack has to kick, duck and jump everywhere.

The question in general is: may the visitor of a mansion expect that a mansion is fair? Or concerning BNW, why should the designer suddenly install a 100% invisible key in a mansion that was fair and neat so far? A key that is absolutely necessary for progress. Wouldn't that be against all odds?
Undecided

Leaves the final question: why should a key been shown when it is out of reach? The player may expect that it is ALWAYS possible to get it, isn't it?. And since G/S isn't involved, the solution must be in the room or with a secret passage from an adjacent room.

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« Last Edit: 25.04.2023 at 21:08:49 by Freddy »

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brell

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Re: MM2 - Brave New World
Reply #148 - 25.04.2023 at 21:22:34

Freddy wrote on 25.04.2023 at 19:12:30:

brell wrote on 21.04.2023 at 22:50:27:

Jack is now in room 17499 with a red key and the gold blocks on. As we know now (and confirmed with a look at the map), he cannot go back to TZ1 with gold bricks on and without a green key. But the only red door in sight is the one in the blue room located "northeast" of TZ1. Jack cannot go there with silver bricks on and there is no other red door in sight. So, after having changed back to silver bricks, Jack has a guesswork to do as of where to go with the red key.

It is possible that this remark is now without a subject after my fixings. Anyway, are you sure about the room number? In my room 17499 Jack may get a red key in a section that started with a purple door that is opened. In the section it is possible to change G/S. Going back to TZ1 always goes smoothly.

But since you mention the absence of a green key, there must be a closed green door? Green doors lead to blue keys. No reds.

So I stay interested in this issue.

I may not have been very clear on this. I am talking about room 17499. I have the red key and I know that I can change gold to silver in this section and get back to TZ1.

But there is only one red door in sight in a room 16503 and that room is unreachable with silver blocks on. And my Jack has not found any other red door yet as he has never been to room 16704. So he has to go searching for another reachable red door.
Not a big issue but wanted to let you know.

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brell

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Re: MM2 - Brave New World
Reply #149 - 25.04.2023 at 21:25:00

Freddy wrote on 25.04.2023 at 19:53:06:

brell wrote on 21.04.2023 at 22:23:21:

OK. Room 16903. A hint is definitely needed for Jack to find out how to open the lower grey door.

I have an idea for a hint. A 'T' that creates a coin that invites Jack to jump.

But!

Jack arrives in TZ1 without a key and starts exploring TZ1 and the reachable blue surroundings (good for an other $ 1.500). His journey tought him that, for further progress, he either need to change gold into silver or get a key to open one of the coloured doors.

The first is completely impossible. Going back to the purple area doesn't help and even a fresh start of the mansion does not!

So he has to find a key. At first I should say that a look on the map shows only two keys of which the green one is out of reach. That narrows the path to the only other one. And with some thinking out of the box, what you did

brell

, Jack got his key.

On the other hand we are living now in a brave MM2-world Wink

with T-triggers. So there may be a T with it's key anywhere. And we don't want to go back to the days of the (very) hard MM&M-rooms where Jack has to kick, duck and jump everywhere.

The question in general is: may the visitor of a mansion expect that a mansion is fair? Or concerning BNW, why should the designer suddenly install a 100% invisible key in a mansion that was fair and neat so far? A key that is absolutely necessary for progress. Wouldn't that be against all odds?
Undecided

Leaves the final question: why should a key been shown when it is out of reach? The player may expect that it is ALWAYS possible to get it, isn't it?. And since G/S isn't involved, the solution must be in the room or with a secret passage from an adjacent room.

I more or less agree with you - but some players (including this one) may think they have missed something and wander around aimlessly for hours looking for something that is not there.

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